#1  
Old 06-13-2021, 02:29 PM
crabapillar crabapillar is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Eden Prairie
Years Playing: 3.1
Courses Played: 36
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 42
Niced 6 Times in 6 Posts
Default Discs and the quality issues...

I know this has been discussed at varying levels many times; but when will it improve? I started playing going on three years ago and I definitely have bought more than my share of discs in that time and some of the quality issues I've come across are beyond unacceptable and I'm not sure how we as consumer's allow it to pass.

Now I'm not talking about one of the common issues in that a disc flies way more overstable than its flight numbers, I'm talking about the sometimes very visible quality issues. With all the manufacturer's being behind in production over the last year I feel like these issues have become even more frequent. Some of the recent examples I've come across are...

A Teebird that is stamped as GStar but it's clearly Star Plastic.
A Gold Line River that has a massive tooling mark around more than 50% of the rim.
A ESP Hornet that has more humps/bumps on the top than my most beat in midrange.
A Champion Banshee that's penned 160, but on a scale is 171g.

These are the most glaring I've come across lately and I've seen quite a few others that are not as extreme, I'm wondering what everyone's thoughts are on this? These are very obvious issues that should and would be caught if there were any types of quality measures in place to check discs before they leave the factory.

I feel like this is especially an issue today as most physical retailer's are still closed and everything is done through the mail. What do you do when you receive a disc that you would have never bought if you would have seen it in person first? It really isn't the fault of the retailer and returning/exchanging things through the mail can be quite the pain. I just feel like many of the manufacturer's are getting away with one here in that they are not held to any standards. This is a small enough industry still that people really don't have any alternatives to go to another brand if they don't like the product. If this were occurring on some other than disc golf discs I can't see a company surviving today.

I believe for most if not all the production process is manual, no automation, so people are already handling the discs. it wouldn't take a lot to incorporate a quality step into the process. Even the issues with overstability/part lines; after the discs have completed the cooling process, I can't imagine it would be too difficult to check a disc using a fixture or some type of go-no-go gauge before it's tossed into a box to ship. Would it add to the cost of a disc, yes most likely, but personally I would be ok paying $1 or $2 more a disc if that meant I was getting a better product that looks/flies like the disc I'm expecting to receive.
Sponsored Links
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-13-2021, 02:59 PM
Rastnav Rastnav is offline
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Durham, NC
Courses Played: 26
Posts: 895
Niced 686 Times in 346 Posts
Default

Not that it’s a direct answer to your question, but OTBDiscs.com seems to recognize the market demand you are pointing out. Pictures and descriptions of every disc, reweighing of each one. I also imagine that they are screening out discs that represent major quality issues and either sending them back to manufacturers or selling them at some sort of lesser cost (as the OTB stands for “Only The Best”.) I think there are other similar retailers as well, but OTBs whole marketing effort is out towards this specific issue.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-13-2021, 03:16 PM
crabapillar crabapillar is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Eden Prairie
Years Playing: 3.1
Courses Played: 36
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 42
Niced 6 Times in 6 Posts
Default

Yeah I know otb is very good about giving thorough descriptions of everything they have, it's great. I would be curious if they actually do weed out anything that is sub standard and send them back. I feel like to get the manufacturer's to actually acknowledge the issues it would take push back from the retailer's as it shouldn't fall on the retailer to perform the quality checks on discs before selling them. Even the weighing of discs now, the retailer's wouldn't have to do this is the manufacturer's did it correctly/accurately.

The Hornet I bought was from infinitediscs and I know they weigh and take pictures of everything; I would be curious if they set aside anything they come across that looks/feels below average.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-13-2021, 03:33 PM
swhite swhite is offline
Double Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,258
Niced 1,127 Times in 548 Posts
Default

As far as I know, Infinite Discs does not weigh the discs that they put up for sale. They list the weight that the manufacturer has given.

Marshall St Disc Golf weighs their discs, and will list any discs originally meant for full retale price but with imperfections as goobered. At the moment, they have 16 discs that are goobered, with the reasons why written in each disc description.

Marshall St carries lots of x-outs also. X-outs come to Marshall St at a discounted cost, and are sold at a discount. Goobered means that Marshall St was charged the full wholesale cost for a disc meant for retail sale.


Last edited by swhite; 06-13-2021 at 03:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-14-2021, 10:47 AM
BillFleming BillFleming is offline
Double Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Arizona
Years Playing: 2.7
Courses Played: 7
Throwing Style: RHFH
Posts: 1,149
Niced 785 Times in 429 Posts
Default

I think the issue is the shortage and that companies are just getting discs out to the market. Discs that normally wouldn't make it out of the shop are now being shipped because they will sell.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-14-2021, 12:42 PM
ray1970's Avatar
ray1970 ray1970 is offline
Double Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,246
Niced 915 Times in 498 Posts
Default

Nature of the beast. Injection molding of anything plastic is going to have unavoidable inconsistencies no matter how hard you try.

I fully admit I order the vast majority of my discs online but hand picking them in person is the only real way to know for sure exactly what you’re getting.

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-14-2021, 01:10 PM
BogeyNoMore's Avatar
BogeyNoMore BogeyNoMore is online now
* Ace No More *
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Walled Lake, MI
Years Playing: 17.3
Courses Played: 354
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 12,432
Niced 7,291 Times in 2,971 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ray1970 View Post
I fully admit I order the vast majority of my discs online but hand picking them in person is the only real way to know for sure exactly what you’re getting.
I think this assumes players are really familiar with how different runs of certain molds differ, and how to "read" different tells within a mold (other than PLH, which is pretty obvious and easy to compare).

Other than comparing PLH of several discs of same mold, plastic, and similar weight, I think it's hard to get a read on which of them at your local retailer will fly differently than the others.

Maybe I'm just not up on what's what across various runs within the molds I throw. I think a relatively small percentage of players really know that stuff, although I think that % increases as you go up the ladder from Rec to Int, to Adv, and Pro/Open.

But most players aren't even PDGA registered.
I can't blame manufacturers for not adopting more stringent quality guidelines that won't necessarily translate into higher profits, and may even reduce profit if higher prices mean entry level players buy fewer discs.

Niced: (2)

Last edited by BogeyNoMore; 06-14-2021 at 01:13 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-14-2021, 01:37 PM
robdeforge robdeforge is offline
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Courses Played: 1
Posts: 825
Niced 609 Times in 325 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ray1970 View Post
Nature of the beast. Injection molding of anything plastic is going to have unavoidable inconsistencies no matter how hard you try.

I fully admit I order the vast majority of my discs online but hand picking them in person is the only real way to know for sure exactly what you’re getting.
whenever possible I like to try to buy multiple from the same run. there's not necessarily a guarantee that they'll fly exactly the same, but far more likely that 4 of a disc from a single run will have similar flight patterns than 4 from who knows what runs. downside for this is it's not always possible to do for various reasons

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-14-2021, 02:49 PM
Countchunkula's Avatar
Countchunkula Countchunkula is offline
Double Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Chicago Burbs
Years Playing: 15.2
Courses Played: 179
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 1,529
Niced 645 Times in 291 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ray1970 View Post
Nature of the beast. Injection molding of anything plastic is going to have unavoidable inconsistencies no matter how hard you try.

I fully admit I order the vast majority of my discs online but hand picking them in person is the only real way to know for sure exactly what you’re getting.
You can absolutely mold plastic to within very tight tolerances. Disc manufacturers have never had the incentive to take on the higher cost required to mold discs with less variation though.

As much as I'd love consistent discs, I'm just not sure that there is enough demand to force change. Probably only a small % of players are aware that it's even an issue.

Reply With Quote
 

  #10  
Old 06-14-2021, 03:15 PM
txmxer txmxer is offline
Double Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Texas
Years Playing: 1.6
Courses Played: 4
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 1,437
Niced 1,215 Times in 606 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Countchunkula View Post
You can absolutely mold plastic to within very tight tolerances. Disc manufacturers have never had the incentive to take on the higher cost required to mold discs with less variation though.

As much as I'd love consistent discs, I'm just not sure that there is enough demand to force change. Probably only a small % of players are aware that it's even an issue.
I don’t doubt what you say, but that certainly comes at a cost. Would you be able to estimate the percentage cost delta to achieve a noticeable improvement in product?

When I was just out of high (~86), I worked as an injection molding machine operator making plastic parts for school furniture. Nothing magical about what I did and I’m not claiming expertise. It was manual labor. The machines were the size of a bus. It was very hot. We sprayed no stick type spray on the mold every so often if the parts started to stick. Colorizers could impact how clean the part came out. As operators, we removed the part and trimmed off flashing, stacked the part for delivery to the fab line. Depending on the part, we would make about one part per minute on average. They ran that area 7 days per week, 24 hrs per day because machine shutdown and startup cost a lot of time and money relatively speaking.

Quality/consistency would have to start with the plastic blend.

Temperature control on the machines should be pretty good.

The machining of a mold would probably have to be more precise.

Likely have to reduce runs on a given mold before repair and replacement.

If the above are correct, you’d need a way to evaluate the plastic better than today.

Probably wouldn’t need new machines, but would need new molds.

And finally more QC on the discs.

I’m guessing the price doubles.

Niced: (3)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Protos, and plenty more quality discs! dudeitsdeejay The Marketplace 6 12-29-2013 08:23 PM
LOTS of quality discs tu-f-o The Marketplace 23 12-02-2013 01:20 AM
Few high quality discs for sale. daxfas26 The Marketplace 3 08-31-2011 11:42 AM
How do you rate the quality of discs? yankees23 Discs 7 07-01-2011 11:55 PM
Lot of 9 quality discs for $70 Mulligan The Marketplace 0 04-19-2011 08:38 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.