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View Poll Results: Should the PDGA allow opting out of player packs?
Yes 24 48.98%
No 25 51.02%
Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll

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  #101  
Old 12-06-2019, 07:38 AM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
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Originally Posted by da Crippler View Post
Funny money should go away. A player pack worth at least twice the entry fee (easily done) and a nice trophy to put on the mantle should be standard practice. Amateurs are NOT pros, we should not be taking ANY compensation for winning. Opting out is fine as long as the entry fee is low.
Pros are not pros, either.

Other than maybe a dozen or so of them.
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  #102  
Old 12-06-2019, 08:41 AM
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krupicka krupicka is offline
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Originally Posted by da Crippler View Post
A player pack worth at least twice the entry fee (easily done)
I'd like to know how that is easily done... What tournaments do you run where you can pull this off?
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  #103  
Old 12-06-2019, 08:48 AM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
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Or why it's done. Why should players receive double their entry---effectively be paid, just to show up, then play the event for free?

Paid to play....amateurs!

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  #104  
Old 12-06-2019, 08:51 AM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Originally Posted by krupicka View Post
I'd like to know how that is easily done... What tournaments do you run where you can pull this off?
As someone who's done it (player pack worth 2x entry and no prize payouts), I can say without question that it is NOT easy whatsoever. It involved a lot of hustling for sponsors, and frankly, the tournament I run where the player pack only equals the entry fee (give or take a dollar) is WAAAAAAAAAAAY easier to pull off, and is just as well attended.

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  #105  
Old 12-06-2019, 09:20 AM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Originally Posted by Chains Bailey View Post
Course quality play a large part of the option to run low entry fee, no frills' events - I believe Biscoe would agree.
IMO course has something to do with it but is not the be all end all. There are plenty of players out there at this point to fill events under a variety of formats. Obviously Hawk Hollow and the Blockhouse have a built in draw but Betty Queen is far from a marquee course and fills the available slots easily enough with the low cost format.
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  #106  
Old 12-06-2019, 09:29 AM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
This, plus the little matter that TDs want players to come to their events.

One drawback to running a low-budget, no-frills event on any course is that attendance may be low. A quality course may draw them regardless of everything else, but a mediocre course may not.
If you are running an event with very little outlay of money involved from the TD's perspective there is little or no risk whether people show up or not. As you know there is a B tier in your area that fills up in minutes every year- do you really think players would not come to Earlewood if the player's packs were gone and the entry fee was basically nominal? (of course would need to be a c tier at the point you remove the player's packs)
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  #107  
Old 12-06-2019, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
If you are running an event with very little outlay of money involved from the TD's perspective there is little or no risk whether people show up or not. As you know there is a B tier in your area that fills up in minutes every year- do you really think players would not come to Earlewood if the player's packs were gone and the entry fee was basically nominal? (of course would need to be a c tier at the point you remove the player's packs)
The Earlewood Classic's a bit of a mystery, but it's a fun course---above-average, in my opinion---and the event has historic momentum and a sweet spot on the calendar.

Events on other courses in Columbia--one of which, most people consider better than Earlewood---had attendance in the 40s, with fairly standard C-tier payment formats.


*

The risk of low attendance, from a TD's perspective, isn't financial---it's the effort involved. If I put out the effort to put on a tournament, and attendance is low, I'm not counting it as successful, even if the balance sheet is fine.
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  #108  
Old 12-06-2019, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
The Earlewood Classic's a bit of a mystery, but it's a fun course---above-average, in my opinion---and the event has historic momentum and a sweet spot on the calendar.

Events on other courses in Columbia--one of which, most people consider better than Earlewood---had attendance in the 40s, with fairly standard C-tier payment formats.


*

The risk of low attendance, from a TD's perspective, isn't financial---it's the effort involved. If I put out the effort to put on a tournament, and attendance is low, I'm not counting it as successful, even if the balance sheet is fine.
Considering the bolded maybe a non-standard format would do better.

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  #109  
Old 12-06-2019, 05:39 PM
Chains Bailey Chains Bailey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
IMO course has something to do with it but is not the be all end all. There are plenty of players out there at this point to fill events under a variety of formats. Obviously Hawk Hollow and the Blockhouse have a built in draw but Betty Queen is far from a marquee course and fills the available slots easily enough with the low cost format.
Agreed - I was not trying to insinuate that the course was the only factor, just one to consider.

I fall between your "Shop elsewhere" and Davids "Will they come" ideals.


I think this entire thread could breakdown into one question:

If two PDGA events were offered on the same course - one with "No frills'" + low entry fee and the other "Big Frills'" + standard entry fee - which would be attended at a higher rate?


Your point is that there are enough willing players to fill most events regardless of the Frills' and entry fees. That works if there is only one option.

As an example, hypothetically on the same weekend, you on Saturday and the other on Sunday - if another TD put on an even at Betty Queen with the extras, which would players choose?

They both may fill for all I know, but my gut feeling is the one with the extras would be attended by more players. Not saying that is the goal, just feel that is the reality at this point.



And, always lost, but the most important point of all of this - David touched on it a few times - many players do not consider the organized event itself of any monetary value at all. IMO, that is what needs to change regardless of Tier, Investment/Payout and locale.

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  #110  
Old 12-06-2019, 07:12 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chains Bailey View Post
...
If two PDGA events were offered on the same course - one with "No frills'" + low entry fee and the other "Big Frills'" + standard entry fee - which would be attended at a higher rate?..
I would ask a different question:

If two events were offered, would there be more total attendees with

a. one event being no-frills, and the other being standard, or

b. both events no-frills, or

c. both events standard?
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