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Old 01-19-2022, 06:37 AM
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jenb jenb is offline
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Default What’s all this “3” business

So I noticed recently I can’t by a Mako, just a Mako3. And there are Roc3s and who knows what else. Someone told me they are flat tops? Someone else said faster? Flat top rocs have been around a long time. I didn’t like them because they seemed to have less glide to me. So what’s going on here and why is it a 3? Was there a 2? What’s going on?
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  #2  
Old 01-19-2022, 06:47 AM
WillJK WillJK is offline
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The general idea is more speed, more stability, less glide. Sometimes it's true, sometimes not. Don't know about the name.
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Old 01-19-2022, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jenb View Post
So I noticed recently I can’t by a Mako, just a Mako3. And there are Roc3s and who knows what else. Someone told me they are flat tops? Someone else said faster? Flat top rocs have been around a long time. I didn’t like them because they seemed to have less glide to me. So what’s going on here and why is it a 3? Was there a 2? What’s going on?
Mako Dimensions:
Max Weight: 180.00 g
Speed: 4.0
Glide: 5.0
Turn: 0.0
Fade: 0.0

Mako3 Dimensions:
Max Weight: 182.00 g
Speed: 5.0
Glide: 4.0
Turn: 0.0
Fade: 0.0

I guess this is the idea. Roc's are worse. They come in Roc, Roc+, Roc3 and RocX3
Infinite Disc has the numbers and visualization.

https://infinitediscs.com/category/Innova#none

Last edited by ru4por; 01-19-2022 at 07:34 AM.
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Old 01-19-2022, 08:30 AM
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Somebody can correct me but as far as I know:

The "3" was originally used on the Roc that was made after McBeth's first world title and was meant to mark the 3rd version of the Rancho Roc (the OG was 1, the Roc+ was 2). The 3 then became synonymous with a flatter top/faster version of an existing mold and Innova ran with the naming scheme.

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Old 01-19-2022, 10:17 AM
BillFleming BillFleming is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Streets View Post
Somebody can correct me but as far as I know:

The "3" was originally used on the Roc that was made after McBeth's first world title and was meant to mark the 3rd version of the Rancho Roc (the OG was 1, the Roc+ was 2). The 3 then became synonymous with a flatter top/faster version of an existing mold and Innova ran with the naming scheme.
This is how I've understood it to be. And that the Roc is so commonly used that there are multiple versions of it available....more than any other mold of Innova's.
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Old 01-19-2022, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ru4por View Post
Mako Dimensions:
Max Weight: 180.00 g
Speed: 4.0
Glide: 5.0
Turn: 0.0
Fade: 0.0

Mako3 Dimensions:
Max Weight: 182.00 g
Speed: 5.0
Glide: 4.0
Turn: 0.0
Fade: 0.0

I guess this is the idea. Roc's are worse. They come in Roc, Roc+, Roc3 and RocX3
Infinite Disc has the numbers and visualization.

https://infinitediscs.com/category/Innova#none
That's just the tip of the Roc variants...

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Old 01-19-2022, 11:00 AM
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Roc3 = attempt to make flat top roc profile in premium plastic stock disc. Flat top Rocs need an additional processing run through the flat top machine (Ching color print process machine) which made them more of a limited CFR thing rather than a stock disc.

Most all of the molds that have been given the '3' treatment were originally designed for baseline DX plastic. Premium plastics have less shrinkage and come out with more dome during cooling when produced at the same rate, causing the discs to mold up more OS with pretty different profile to what was originally designed. Innova likely wanted to make the premium plastic versions with more consistent 'flatter' tops to produce them at a higher rate and redesign the molds for premium plastic specifications.

Aviar
AviarX
Gator
Mako
Shark
Roc
Leopard
TeeBird

TL <- the TL was a different attempt at countering the overstability from molding the TeeBird in premium plastics.

RocX/Wombat are the two odd discs that weren't released in baseline first but got the established '3' treatment to flatten them.

I think Innova has also introduced a new flatter '3' topped distance driver top mold piece to make the 14 speed discs (Firestorm/Colossus/Corvette).

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Old 01-19-2022, 11:11 AM
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Wasn’t the Mako originally released only in premium plastic? The original Mako is out of production?

If the extra dome made them too OS, but the flat top makes them have more stability, does that mean the 3s are are more stable because they are less overstable? That seems like a weird and confusing way to put it if that’s the case, and it contradicts the numbers given above for the two versions of the mako. Plus, usually when a disc is caused to be faster, it becomes more overstable, not less. I have a hard time believing the mako was made faster but the fade did not increase.
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Old 01-19-2022, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jenb View Post
Wasn’t the Mako originally released only in premium plastic? The original Mako is out of production?

If the extra dome made them too OS, but the flat top makes them have more stability, does that mean the 3s are are more stable because they are less overstable? That seems like a weird and confusing way to put it if that’s the case, and it contradicts the numbers given above for the two versions of the mako. Plus, usually when a disc is caused to be faster, it becomes more overstable, not less. I have a hard time believing the mako was made faster but the fade did not increase.
Probably best not to think about it too much. 🙂

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Old 01-19-2022, 11:42 AM
Orioles_Lefty Orioles_Lefty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jenb View Post
Wasn’t the Mako originally released only in premium plastic? The original Mako is out of production?

If the extra dome made them too OS, but the flat top makes them have more stability, does that mean the 3s are are more stable because they are less overstable? That seems like a weird and confusing way to put it if that’s the case, and it contradicts the numbers given above for the two versions of the mako. Plus, usually when a disc is caused to be faster, it becomes more overstable, not less. I have a hard time believing the mako was made faster but the fade did not increase.
A local retailer had some newly produced Star Makos at a point this past summer. So, they are still being produced at some level. And, yes, the Mako was originally produced only in Star, iirc. Was the first disc that I really got to fly correctly, as it seemed to fit my ultimate throwing background. I rarely ever find new ones at online stores..

How similar were the Mako and the Discmania MD when Innova was producing for Discraft? I bought two C-line MDs online hoping to replace an original Mako and both ended up being very domey and very soft/gummy. They just hang out in the closest along with a S-line FD that’s got the stability of a Firebird.
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