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Old 05-21-2019, 09:25 AM
ThunderEagle ThunderEagle is offline
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Default Am Tournaments. Has anyone ran a no player pack, Trophy Only event?

I just ran my first PDGA Sanctioned event. We had a modest turnout (new event, with a very popular B tier about 100 miles away). I did a standard custom stamped disc player pack, attempted to keep the cost fairly low. $35 for MA3 and MA2, $40 for higher. Player pack and fees were $20 of the cost, rest to payouts.

I'll be honest. I don't need more discs at this point. I've been playing just under 3 years in that time I have played in 20 sanctioned events. A tournament that I paid 10-20 bucks that was no PP and trophy only, and I'm happy to let the TD/Club pocket the rest would be very appealing to me. The PDGA can still get their cut, the TD can still make pretty close to what they made before. The only one cut out is the disc manufacturers obviously.

I know what I just purposed isn't allowed by PDGA rules. I like playing in tournaments. I like being in a rating protected division, because at 50, I doubt I'm going to get to the point of competing in the Open divisions. While a lot of the tournament stamps are cool, I just don't need the disc. If I do happen to get a payout of 25-50, or whatever it may be, I really start to struggle to pick out 2-3 discs. I throw what I throw, and end up just stock piling backups of my discs.

I really see this structure as an issue as we continue to try and grow the sport, and I fear the PDGA will never address this, and it would be a blow to the disc manufacturers.
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Old 05-21-2019, 11:26 AM
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kenjiac kenjiac is offline
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I would play in an event like this. What's PDGA take on this? I read the trophy only event document. Is no players pack super low cost allowed to be sanctioned? Or would it need to be CEP or X tier?

https://www.pdga.com/files/pdga_true...guidelines.pdf
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Old 05-21-2019, 12:48 PM
blake833 blake833 is offline
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What are things other than discs that would be good in a player pack? small towels? I saw a tournament give out little clipboards for scorecards. That was pretty handy
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Old 05-21-2019, 01:02 PM
ThunderEagle ThunderEagle is offline
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What are things other than discs that would be good in a player pack? small towels? I saw a tournament give out little clipboards for scorecards. That was pretty handy
Sure, different things are nice, but how many clip boards and towels do you need? I'd like to get rid of both player packs and payouts. Or at least have the option. If I pay $20 for entry, no players pack, and trophies for each division, the TD or club make about the same amount of money, since they are probably making 7-10 bucks a disc. A lot less hassle in dealing with the inventory. I think it would be interesting to be an option, but currently you can't make a profit on the entry fee like that.

I think at best you could do would without a players pack and/or payouts is about $3 a person. It is a funny money game.
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Old 05-21-2019, 01:08 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Originally Posted by kenjiac View Post
I would play in an event like this. What's PDGA take on this? I read the trophy only event document. Is no players pack super low cost allowed to be sanctioned? Or would it need to be CEP or X tier?

https://www.pdga.com/files/pdga_true...guidelines.pdf
Of course it's allowed. If most if not all of the entry fee is allowable pass through fees (PDGA player fee, regional/state/local series fees, greens fees, etc), you can whittle the net entry down to nearly nothing and meet all payout requirements. 85-100% of nothing is still nothing.

I used to run $10 C-tiers...$2 PDGA fee, $1 NEFA series fee, $1 state series fee, $5 greens fee, $1 to trophies. Most of the ams played for the fun and to chase points in the two series. Those who didn't like it and wanted to play for something started running unsanctioned tournaments that paid cash to everyone.

The model works for public park courses too...just pick an entry that covers the bare minimum of necessary fees. I think the bare minimum entry for a PDGA tournament would have to be $2, to cover the player fee. Less if you find a sponsor to cover those.

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Old 05-21-2019, 01:09 PM
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ChrisWoj ChrisWoj is offline
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I don't see any reason the PDGA wouldn't allow this. They already have sanctioned leagues and if I remember correctly tournaments have more $$$ per player going to the PDGA than a league, so its not like they'd be losing money by allowing it - relative to pushing you into some league format.
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Old 05-21-2019, 01:51 PM
ThunderEagle ThunderEagle is offline
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I used to run $10 C-tiers...$2 PDGA fee, $1 NEFA series fee, $1 state series fee, $5 greens fee, $1 to trophies.
So, in your situation, if there was no greens fees or series, then the most you could charge as an entry is $3?

Not a horrible idea. I'd like to see a TD/Club still charge $10 and be able to keep the $7. I'd play the heck out of those tournaments. Honestly, the main reason we do PDGA sanctioned events is for the insurance.

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Old 05-21-2019, 02:25 PM
Orioles_Lefty Orioles_Lefty is offline
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I’ve played in a number of tournaments that do AM plastic payout but not player’s pack. One tournament did stamped discs as trophies. I doubt these tournaments compete with other tournaments on “bang for buck” given MSRP of players packs often offered.

That’s all fine by me. I’ll pay the fee to play because someone else is doing the organizing and I’m not. Granted, these aren’t low cost tournaments. $30-45 for MA2.

I’d sign up in a second for a $15 no trophy, no plastic, no players pack tournament. Pay for rating, insurance, and associates fees. And I bring lunch even when provided for medical reasons, so don’t need that either.

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Old 05-21-2019, 02:30 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Originally Posted by ThunderEagle View Post
So, in your situation, if there was no greens fees or series, then the most you could charge as an entry is $3?

Not a horrible idea. I'd like to see a TD/Club still charge $10 and be able to keep the $7. I'd play the heck out of those tournaments. Honestly, the main reason we do PDGA sanctioned events is for the insurance.
The least I could charge with no intention of doing player packs or payouts of any kind beyond a trophy is $3, yes.

Frankly, I don't see why a distinction needs to be made between a fee paid for use of a P2P course (a seemingly acceptable "greens fee") and a fee to the club or TD at a regular park (which isn't expressly listed but IMO should fall under the same greens fee category). As a course owner, I'm able to use the greens fees to cover operation expenses for the tournament (scorecards, pencils, scoreboard, signs, etc). Even at tournaments I run at other people's courses, they pay for those expenses out of the greens fees they collect. Seems silly that a club or individual TD can't charge a similar fee, within reason, to cover the same expenses (and maybe even pocket a modest profit). Particularly in the case of a low cost, no-frills tournament like you propose.

If the PDGA were to make a single change to their tournament requirements/standards, I feel like making it clear that greens fee doesn't just apply to tournaments played on a pay-to-play course but to any course would be the most beneficial. Cap it if they feel it would be abused, or require more detailed financial reports in order to justify it, but give TDs/clubs a bit more wiggle room to make sure expenses are covered without the need to invest in merchandise that still carries no guarantee of breaking even.

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Old 05-21-2019, 02:36 PM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
If the PDGA were to make a single change to their tournament requirements/standards, I feel like making it clear that greens fee doesn't just apply to tournaments played on a pay-to-play course but to any course would be the most beneficial. Cap it if they feel it would be abused, or require more detailed financial reports in order to justify it, but give TDs/clubs a bit more wiggle room to make sure expenses are covered without the need to invest in merchandise that still carries no guarantee of breaking even.
I really wish the PDGA would go further and allow a tournament fee, capped at $10 or $20, to be deducted off the top. If announced in advance, like limiting divisions.

Whether TDs would use it, or how well it would go over with players in some places, is another issue. But it would be great to have the option.

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