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Old 12-27-2019, 10:42 PM
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Default Sidearm Shoulder Soreness

Lately I've had some nagging soreness in my right shoulder, I'm guessing a tweaked delt muscle (more of a numb muscle pull pain than a sharp pain). The shoulder apparently doesn't like it when I throw flat forehands and especially anhyzer ones. Throwing hyzers seemingly doesn't aggravate it. The pain is in the front of the shoulder, before you get to the chest.

Now I'm basically just trying to ascertain if there's something in my technique that I can clean up to keep aggravating it. Anybody ever experienced anything similar? I don't have any vids or pics but the shot that bothers it the most is if I throw a stand-still (i.e. mostly arm) FH with some decent anhyzer (like a flex shot) and though I think I do a decent job of leading with my elbow, the elbow doesn't stray too far from my body. At the end of the wind-up and when I start to come forward with the disc is when it starts acting up.
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Old 12-27-2019, 11:46 PM
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Anhyzer/flat definitely shouldn't have the elbow in close to the body. Sidearm pitch. You might be trying to lead with the elbow too much.



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Old 12-28-2019, 12:51 AM
RFrance RFrance is offline
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Stretching for the shoulder posterior capsule might also help.


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Old 12-28-2019, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroD
(more of a numb muscle pull pain than a sharp pain).
Sounds almost like a nerve being pinched rather than a muscle pull. Are you getting a numb/tingly sensation anywhere else down the arm?

When I first started playing, I threw predominately FH and I ended up aggravating an old shoulder injury that sounds somewhat similar (though mine was the back of the shoulder instead of the front).

It was pretty messed up, I went to PT for a bit to do a routine of stretches to strengthen some muscles up and improve range of motion, and it got better after a couple of months.

So the above stretching video (or something similar) may be all you need. Or the whole arm may need to come off, I dunno.

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Old 12-28-2019, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukeshoe View Post
Sounds almost like a nerve being pinched rather than a muscle pull. Are you getting a numb/tingly sensation anywhere else down the arm?

When I first started playing, I threw predominately FH and I ended up aggravating an old shoulder injury that sounds somewhat similar (though mine was the back of the shoulder instead of the front).

It was pretty messed up, I went to PT for a bit to do a routine of stretches to strengthen some muscles up and improve range of motion, and it got better after a couple of months.

So the above stretching video (or something similar) may be all you need. Or the whole arm may need to come off, I dunno.

Jukeshoe: <----Only plays a doctor online.
No thankfully it doesn't seem to be nerve related. Worst case scenario it could be a bone spur but it returns to normal so quickly that I doubt it's that either. I've been doing a lot of dumbbell lifting since June so it could be just overworked.

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It might be related to an issue I had a couple of years ago where I reached across my chest to grab my seat belt with my right hand and it went kablooey, had to see a PT and do some stretching. One thing is for sure, my FH is very lacking in the backswing dept. I'm gonna have to do some serious unlearning of muscle memory to get used to reaching back so far and not having such a compact swing. I threw some annies and flat FHs today without aggravating it but I felt like I didn't have much power b/c my timing feels awful. I'm also very poor at following through on my FHs.
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Old 12-31-2019, 11:05 AM
Disc Golf Doctor Disc Golf Doctor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrotherDave View Post
Lately I've had some nagging soreness in my right shoulder, I'm guessing a tweaked delt muscle (more of a numb muscle pull pain than a sharp pain). The shoulder apparently doesn't like it when I throw flat forehands and especially anhyzer ones. Throwing hyzers seemingly doesn't aggravate it. The pain is in the front of the shoulder, before you get to the chest.

Now I'm basically just trying to ascertain if there's something in my technique that I can clean up to keep aggravating it. Anybody ever experienced anything similar? I don't have any vids or pics but the shot that bothers it the most is if I throw a stand-still (i.e. mostly arm) FH with some decent anhyzer (like a flex shot) and though I think I do a decent job of leading with my elbow, the elbow doesn't stray too far from my body. At the end of the wind-up and when I start to come forward with the disc is when it starts acting up.
My guess is that form is related on top of issues that have predisposed you to a shoulder issue. There is no way it is a deltoid issue. There are a lot of other structures in an around the shoulder that would take excessive strain before the deltoid. I actually don't think I've ever seen a deltoid strain. People think that that is the issue because they often have referred pain in that area, so I can understand why you would think that. It is often rotator cuff issues/impingement.
It is hard to say what to focus on since there are a lot of factors that could be related, but certainly you can work on your form in the sense of using your whole body and not strong arming it. Sidewinder knows that I disagree about the elbow being by the side, though it doesn't have to be (and I believe also depends on grip). But like you mentioned, leading with the elbow will increase your power but will also put more strain on the shoulder.
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Old 12-31-2019, 12:29 PM
IHearChains IHearChains is offline
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Your description of being able to throw FH hyzer without pain, but not anhyzer, sounds very familiar, I think I had a very similar injury. Not being an orthopedic doc myself, all I can do is share my own experience, can't say anything about yours.

I damaged my rotator cuff by throwing FH anhyzer too hard while reaching out from an obstructed lie. For the first few weeks after that, I couldn't lift my arm over my shoulder height, and I had to use my left hand to put the the seat belt on, put my covers on when I got in bed, wash or comb my hair, and various other random things.

Right after the injury, I could still throw hyzer FHs fine, although I took it really easy for awhile, using it only for short hyzer approach shots. But FH anhyzers were painful as hell so I completely avoided them unless they were short enough to throw with wrist only. Although it was painful, I could still bear some weight resistance on top of my upper arm when held out parallel with the ground, so I was supposedly not a candidate for surgery, just PT. If its a full tear, there is no strength in that test, and then surgery is more commonly recommended.

I got the PT recommendations for rotator cuff rehab and strengthening, and I could do several of those stretches without pain. That really helped recovery a lot. After a couple years of slow gradual improvement, I am back to full power FH drives on a hyzer release, even though it's not what it used to be. I can throw flat and anhyzer again, at medium power. I will never put full power on that reach-out anhyzer FH ever again. And I still do some of the PT stretches as part of my warmup before I play. So far so good.
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Old 12-31-2019, 01:08 PM
Disc Golf Doctor Disc Golf Doctor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IHearChains View Post
Your description of being able to throw FH hyzer without pain, but not anhyzer, sounds very familiar, I think I had a very similar injury. Not being an orthopedic doc myself, all I can do is share my own experience, can't say anything about yours.

I damaged my rotator cuff by throwing FH anhyzer too hard while reaching out from an obstructed lie. For the first few weeks after that, I couldn't lift my arm over my shoulder height, and I had to use my left hand to put the the seat belt on, put my covers on when I got in bed, wash or comb my hair, and various other random things.

Right after the injury, I could still throw hyzer FHs fine, although I took it really easy for awhile, using it only for short hyzer approach shots. But FH anhyzers were painful as hell so I completely avoided them unless they were short enough to throw with wrist only. Although it was painful, I could still bear some weight resistance on top of my upper arm when held out parallel with the ground, so I was supposedly not a candidate for surgery, just PT. If its a full tear, there is no strength in that test, and then surgery is more commonly recommended.

I got the PT recommendations for rotator cuff rehab and strengthening, and I could do several of those stretches without pain. That really helped recovery a lot. After a couple years of slow gradual improvement, I am back to full power FH drives on a hyzer release, even though it's not what it used to be. I can throw flat and anhyzer again, at medium power. I will never put full power on that reach-out anhyzer FH ever again. And I still do some of the PT stretches as part of my warmup before I play. So far so good.
studies show that even full thickness non-traumatic rotator cuff tears still tend to do at least as well, if not better, with conservative management. The typical management is PT first and surgery only after failed conservative management.

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Old 12-31-2019, 02:08 PM
IHearChains IHearChains is offline
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Originally Posted by Disc Golf Doctor View Post
studies show that even full thickness non-traumatic rotator cuff tears still tend to do at least as well, if not better, with conservative management. The typical management is PT first and surgery only after failed conservative management.
Thanks for weighing in. This is definitely consistent with lots of other stuff I read.

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Old 12-31-2019, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disc Golf Doctor View Post
My guess is that form is related on top of issues that have predisposed you to a shoulder issue. There is no way it is a deltoid issue. There are a lot of other structures in an around the shoulder that would take excessive strain before the deltoid. I actually don't think I've ever seen a deltoid strain. People think that that is the issue because they often have referred pain in that area, so I can understand why you would think that. It is often rotator cuff issues/impingement.
It is hard to say what to focus on since there are a lot of factors that could be related, but certainly you can work on your form in the sense of using your whole body and not strong arming it. Sidewinder knows that I disagree about the elbow being by the side, though it doesn't have to be (and I believe also depends on grip). But like you mentioned, leading with the elbow will increase your power but will also put more strain on the shoulder.
Thanks for chiming in. Yeah, impingement sounds like what it feels like b/c when it flares up it seems like it is b/c I hit a hitch in the throw. It hurts right at the pointiest part of my shoulder, like if I was trying to hit you with my shoulder the hurt spot would make first contact. I have found that stretching my arm by extending it out behind me as high as I can go and then using a tree/wall/whatever to push the arm towards the other shoulder, keeping the arm straight, has helped a lot in preventing the flare ups.

It's kind of aggravating b/c after getting horrible tendinitis in my elbow from strong-arming my backhand, I meticulously reworked my form to take the strong-arming out of it and I've been trying to do the same with my forehand too. Actually, come to think of it, it may not be DG related per se b/c I think it started acting up during a tourney after I fell off a fence and landed on my right side. But DG isn't making it any better.
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