#11  
Old 02-26-2018, 02:16 PM
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My response when player's ask me what par is for the round: "You don't really want to know what par is, but you do want to know that 3x21=63."
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  #12  
Old 02-26-2018, 02:43 PM
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Par has no bearing on scoring errors. It's simple math. I check scorecards with everything relative to 3. Doesn't matter what par is. 18x3=54. We list pars on our scorecards. I like to just remind players that scoring errors get a 2 stroke penalty and to check their math. Say this repeatedly as players are handing in the scorecards. I also like to confirm that all players checked the card when it was turned in. If just one player comes up and turns in the card i just ask did everyone check this? Also no one is immune to the penalty stokes. I've had to stoke the TD once. LOL
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Old 02-26-2018, 02:52 PM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Years ago every player was required to initial the scorecard prior to it being turned in. IMO ceasing to require that was a step backwards on this issue.
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Old 02-26-2018, 02:54 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Discette View Post
I think the solution would be: DON'T mention the total par in the player meeting. The only time par on a hole really matters is if a player shows up late AND for proper rating generation.

Can you provide link to last year's event?
Par is irrelevant to ratings calculations.
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Old 02-27-2018, 11:12 PM
texhop58 texhop58 is offline
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Well it truly surprised me that I Had so many. The event was held in an area that's kind of void in disc golf events. Im sure during minis they just fix the score card and go with it. But every person who came up to complain about it, I showed them what they did, and they were pissed, but pissed at themselves for making such a stupid mistake. After about the third or fourth wrong card I wanted to stop everyone and have them re-check, but the first couple of wrong cards had already left for lunch. I didn't feel it was right or fair of me to tell everyone else and not them. One, because I mentioned it in player meeting and two being my first event I Didn't want to give people a reason to complain like saying you told them but not us, that's because you are friends with them.
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Old 02-27-2018, 11:17 PM
texhop58 texhop58 is offline
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Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
Were all the erroneous scores off by two exactly? Is it crystal clear that players were using the "everything is a 3" trick to total up the card, then adding the result to 56 rather than 54? If so, then yes, the simplest fix is probably to remove par from the scorecard. But with that many errors in a single round (over 50% of the field?), it does seem like there must be something else going on.

Like biscoe, I've run plenty of tournaments on courses with pars ranging all over the place. Many of our local courses' scorecards, which are used for tournaments, show "rec" par for the course (so it could show a par 70 for a course where the "pro" par is 54). I've never had more than a couple math errors in totaling cards at any given event, and certainly no one has counted based on "par 3" then added/subtracted from the listed par on the scorecard.

All that said, if it was as simple as 35 out of 67 players conflating "everything is a 3" and the listed par, my response to them as a TD when they complain about the penalties is to suck it up and pay better attention to what they're doing.
Majority of them were off by 2. I think I had two that were off by other numbers.
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Old 02-27-2018, 11:25 PM
texhop58 texhop58 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Discette View Post
I agree that it seems there is something else going on here. Even at events with a par that is not 54, I only see one or two scoring errors per round.

Maybe it was the way you talked about it in the player meeting that confused the players?


Plenty of TD's in this area put the par for each hole ON the scorecard. Most players seem to do ok with addition for 18 and 27 hole layouts regardless of the total par. I see more scoring errors (3 or 4 errors instead of 1 or 2) at events that have a strange number of holes (like 19 or 20 holes)


Strange but true: This year at So Cal Champs I had two rounds with ZERO scoring errors and there were 144 players! That to me is AMAZING! (I don't put pars on the card, I use a generic 18 hole card because we have two courses with two different pars and I save on printing with one scorecard format.) I never make mention of par in player meetings, although par for each hole is on the caddy sheet along with total par for the course. Again, I never mention par in the player meeting unless someone asks. Then I say something like everything is par three except Holes 4 and 8 which are par four.


I think the solution would be: DON'T mention the total par in the player meeting. The only time par on a hole really matters is if a player shows up late AND for proper rating generation.

Can you provide link to last year's event?
During the player meeting I said, "a" hole is a par 5 today so total par is 56. (we are a 16 hole course and holes A/B are between 14/15)

here is the link https://www.pdga.com/tour/event/31596

maybe part of it is it was many players first event or first year playing events. But even my seasoned pros made the mistake
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Old 03-02-2018, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texhop58 View Post
During the player meeting I said, "a" hole is a par 5 today so total par is 56. (we are a 16 hole course and holes A/B are between 14/15)

here is the link https://www.pdga.com/tour/event/31596

maybe part of it is it was many players first event or first year playing events. But even my seasoned pros made the mistake
I looked at the event results. I could not tell anything about the scoring, but I absolutley LOVE your email address! You should get that on a license plate.
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Old 03-02-2018, 01:19 PM
texhop58 texhop58 is offline
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I know. It was one of those oh moments. IowaParkdiscgolf was too long. Well the town logo has always been the IP. So just made sense. Then as soon as I did it. Was like. OH. OH WELL

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  #20  
Old 03-04-2018, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Discette View Post
I agree that it seems there is something else going on here. Even at events with a par that is not 54, I only see one or two scoring errors per round.

Maybe it was the way you talked about it in the player meeting that confused the players?


Plenty of TD's in this area put the par for each hole ON the scorecard. Most players seem to do ok with addition for 18 and 27 hole layouts regardless of the total par. I see more scoring errors (3 or 4 errors instead of 1 or 2) at events that have a strange number of holes (like 19 or 20 holes)


Strange but true: This year at So Cal Champs I had two rounds with ZERO scoring errors and there were 144 players! That to me is AMAZING! (I don't put pars on the card, I use a generic 18 hole card because we have two courses with two different pars and I save on printing with one scorecard format.) I never make mention of par in player meetings, although par for each hole is on the caddy sheet along with total par for the course. Again, I never mention par in the player meeting unless someone asks. Then I say something like everything is par three except Holes 4 and 8 which are par four.


I think the solution would be: DON'T mention the total par in the player meeting. The only time par on a hole really matters is if a player shows up late AND for proper rating generation.

Can you provide link to last year's event?
All of this.

We've been putting par on the scorecards, and I've been seeing it on scorecards where I play, forever. I don't think I've ever seen a math error that could be blamed on it. I'm not sure I've ever seen an entire scorecard with math errors, at all. Though when I'm in a group and we're doing the initial tallies, the most common error is, as Discette cites, courses with an unusual number of holes.

I go along with the suggestion of not mentioning total par in the players meeting---not because it should cause a problem, but because there's no reason to. For the 99.9% of players who will play every hole, it's not important.
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