#1  
Old 01-16-2021, 06:15 PM
Tylab Tylab is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 15
Niced 9 Times in 7 Posts
Default Are glide and stability actually independent variables?

Hey, so basically my question is whether glide and stability (for a given speed) are actually independent variables. Are there discs that are overstable/fairly overstable that also have a high amount of glide?

Do manufacturers just tend not to manufacture discs that are both overstable and high glide or are these factors physically opposed from one another so that you can't really maximize both?

I have tried a scorpion and it seems like it has an unusual amount of glide for being as stable as it is and it got me thinking that maybe disc manufacturers tried out making overstable high glide discs and they just didn't work that well.
Sponsored Links
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-16-2021, 06:28 PM
sidewinder22's Avatar
sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Creeping Creek DGC
Years Playing: 14.6
Courses Played: 230
Posts: 17,473
Niced 4,643 Times in 2,810 Posts
Default

They are related. Glide requires lift. Lift creates instability.

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-16-2021, 08:08 PM
oldmandiscer oldmandiscer is offline
Size Queen
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 1,369
Niced 273 Times in 184 Posts
Default

If you want more glide look for domier discs as well. But there is always a trade off. Domey discs will fly a little slower and get effected by wind a bit more but they can also fly further due to the glide. Some of my favorite discs are understable molds but with a decent dome on them. They tend to not turn as much but still have glide so you can throw tight lines low through the woods.

I like my "more headwind" discs to be flatter so they can cut through the wind, they have less glide and surface area for the win to push it around too. Going into the wind you want speed more so then glide.

Some things to consider.

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-16-2021, 08:20 PM
Casey 1988 Casey 1988 is offline
Shun the frumious Bandersnatch!
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Pierre, South Dakota, USA
Years Playing: 17.7
Courses Played: 25
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 7,465
Niced 1,287 Times in 1,048 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tylab View Post
Hey, so basically my question is whether glide and stability (for a given speed) are actually independent variables. Are there discs that are overstable/fairly overstable that also have a high amount of glide?

Do manufacturers just tend not to manufacture discs that are both overstable and high glide or are these factors physically opposed from one another so that you can't really maximize both?

I have tried a scorpion and it seems like it has an unusual amount of glide for being as stable as it is and it got me thinking that maybe disc manufacturers tried out making overstable high glide discs and they just didn't work that well.
There are some OS molds that have high glide but they tend to be larger diameter like the Scorpion and thus due to the diameter are harder discs to throw accurately at faster speeds hence why very few molds past 6 speed are in the 180 gram max diameter category.

Niced: (2)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-17-2021, 02:51 AM
Tylab Tylab is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 15
Niced 9 Times in 7 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey 1988 View Post
There are some OS molds that have high glide but they tend to be larger diameter like the Scorpion and thus due to the diameter are harder discs to throw accurately at faster speeds hence why very few molds past 6 speed are in the 180 gram max diameter category.
Yah the scorpion is interesting to me when thrown way underspeed as an overstable disc. Most overstable discs at low speed when throw with an anny fight out of the anny but drop like a rock while doing it so that the net result is very little lateral movement in the direction of the fade (the stego being the awesomely absurd example of this).

The scorpion manages to fight out of the anny and then actually bank off in the direction of the natural fade. Its a unique flight path thats interesting if dubiously useful.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-17-2021, 02:55 AM
Tylab Tylab is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 15
Niced 9 Times in 7 Posts
Default

*double post sorry*
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-17-2021, 04:07 AM
Casey 1988 Casey 1988 is offline
Shun the frumious Bandersnatch!
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Pierre, South Dakota, USA
Years Playing: 17.7
Courses Played: 25
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 7,465
Niced 1,287 Times in 1,048 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tylab View Post
Yah the scorpion is interesting to me when thrown way underspeed as an overstable disc. Most overstable discs at low speed when throw with an anny fight out of the anny but drop like a rock while doing it so that the net result is very little lateral movement in the direction of the fade (the stego being the awesomely absurd example of this).

The scorpion manages to fight out of the anny and then actually bank off in the direction of the natural fade. Its a unique flight path thats interesting if dubiously useful.
This is an interesting point. Ever throw the Viper? Odd disc, I mean it has glide if one can get the speed right for the 180 Gram diameter disc it flies fine, Then do the much lower speed/power throw and the disc will not dump as hard as it should for the speed of the disc. The lower speed the Viper will fly almost the same as the numbers maybe a 2 instead of 1 for the Turn.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-17-2021, 04:16 AM
Casey 1988 Casey 1988 is offline
Shun the frumious Bandersnatch!
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Pierre, South Dakota, USA
Years Playing: 17.7
Courses Played: 25
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 7,465
Niced 1,287 Times in 1,048 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey 1988 View Post
This is an interesting point. Ever throw the Viper? Odd disc, I mean it has glide if one can get the speed right for the 180 Gram diameter disc it flies fine, Then do the much lower speed/power throw and the disc will not dump as hard as it should for the speed of the disc. The lower speed the Viper will fly almost the same as the numbers maybe a 2 instead of 1 for the Turn.
Oh and less glide when thrown with less power. (timed out)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-17-2021, 09:44 AM
armiller's Avatar
armiller armiller is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: West Virginia
Years Playing: 5.8
Courses Played: 204
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 3,752
Niced 1,059 Times in 665 Posts
Default

Technically, lift only creates instability if it doesn't act through the disc's center of mass. In practice, it almost never acts through this point. So, lift creates more instability if it acts farther from the center of mass. This is known from some of the work from the Potts/Crowther lab, which asserted that more overstable discs (e.g. the Flick) have lift acting farther from the center of mass than other discs (from the Wraith to the Buzzz to the Aviar).

But I don't think that answers your question. In practice, I can definitely think of some molds that have decent glide within the overstable class. (E.g. Drone, Predator) Then there are others that are essentially glideless (Buzzz OS, most Flicks - if we stay with Discraft) but also very overstable. I believe lift and overstability are both determined by wing shape, shoulder, and dome, but making a disc overstable doesn't necessarily kill lift, and vice versa.

Also, within a mold it does seem that more overstable versions of a disc (e.g. I have some decent Firebird and Nuke experience) tend to have less glide. Flat top Firebirds are more overstable and tend to have less glide. Understable Nukes tend to have the most glide. However, there are all kinds of little variations. I have one very OS Nuke that also has great glide. I suspect Ezra Aderhold or some other DC pro could throw it 600'.

In short, lift and stability are NOT independent variables, but making a very overstable disc does not doom the disc to being a glideless brick.

Niced: (2)
Reply With Quote
 

  #10  
Old 01-17-2021, 11:54 AM
elmexdela elmexdela is online now
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Courses Played: 654
Posts: 9,962
Niced 2,976 Times in 1,653 Posts
Default

what measurement tool are yall using to measure glide

Niced: (2)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Variables for mold minimization Nothing but cage Discs 71 02-02-2018 12:59 PM
Key variables Monkeypaws Technique & Strategy 8 06-12-2013 11:55 PM
Disc Golf Course Regression (What variables effect course rating??) ElementZ Disc Golf Courses 17 05-24-2013 04:02 AM
putter most similar to ion (stability and glide) Titan037 Discs 32 12-11-2011 01:09 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.