#391  
Old 10-29-2019, 11:40 AM
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DiscgolfStu DiscgolfStu is offline
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Originally Posted by ballgolfconvert View Post
So if two people are in the middle of a tennis game, how exactly are you going to take their court? Or if a couple of groups are playing a casual softball game. Are you going go to the mound and start hurling pitches. Explains a bunch when folks need to come up ridiculous situations to justify their views.
I think i'm one of the only ones here simpathizing with your point of view, but you aren't seeing it that way, it seems.
I run a parks dept. If you have booked the softball field or tennis courts from, say 1-4 pm, and you show up and there are people playing a casual game there, they are expected to forfeit use of the facility. This is fairly standard practice the world over, I'd assume. If there's a swim meet at the local pool, Jo Shmo just can't show up and swim laps. No reason a disc golf course should be any different. But you have to actually "book" it. The nice thing for us (parks) to do is to post the times that the facilities are booked so the casual players know what to expect and can plan their time accordingly.

In the case of your league night, if you have the course booked, a simple notification should do the trick. Casual players would know to not bother showing up at that time.

Now, the parks dept might not want to book the disc golf course out exclusively to anyone at any time, and that is also their prerogative.
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  #392  
Old 10-29-2019, 12:01 PM
Central Scrutinizer Central Scrutinizer is offline
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Originally Posted by ru4por View Post
Allow me to tell a story. It is of a course in Michigan that is going to shortly get pulled. One of the said reasons for the municipality pulling the course was an incident between an entitled disc golfer and some members of the track cross country community.

Apparently, the park is used by the local high school cross country teams on Saturday mornings for cross country meets. A golfer took umbrage at his game being disrupted by this and interfered with some of the competitors and took up his complaint with the coaches/school administrators at the meet. His contention was that the park was a disc golf first area, disc golf occupying the space 7 days a week, sunrise to sunset. He paid taxes and had every right to play where he wanted and when he wanted.

I am sure that you would not interfere with casuals and obviously are not going to get in someones face, but I was hoping this tale would drive home the pitfalls of entitlement. We are, nearly always, in a public park with both casual player and often many more folks. (dog walkers, hikers, bird watchers, picnickers, sunbathers, geocachers, pokemon go'ers....) We need to embrace, respect and accommodate all of these park users. Failing to do so...even one time can cost the park the course.

Casuals in league time are an opportunity here. They are treated great, invited to join, play through and are given royal treatment. We want them as club members, league members and advocates of sportsmanship and fair play.
Oh no! What course is this?

We lost our Air Zoo course in Kalamazoo (Portage, specifically) a few years ago and it still pisses me off! My 10-year-old just got bitten by the DG bug this year and it would have been perfect for him right now.
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  #393  
Old 10-29-2019, 12:14 PM
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I went to a local public disc golf course with a friend to play a round two Sundays ago. We were turned away because a league had reserved the course for their final round of the year. The members of the league were barbequing lunch when we arrived at 1:00.
This league has had diminishing attendance for a few years now, and there could not have been 20 persons at the barbeque.
We ended up going to a nearby pay-to-play course where we met a group of 7 who had also been refused admittance to the public course.
I expect that the number of people that were excluded from the course during the day must have far exceeded the membership of the league. And, I think they could have easily accomodated us at the time we arrived.
If I had been a member of this unpopular league I think it would be wiser to welcome walk-ons to play through, and offer each one a burger and drink before they start, but that's just me.
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  #394  
Old 10-29-2019, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Central Scrutinizer View Post
Oh no! What course is this?

We lost our Air Zoo course in Kalamazoo (Portage, specifically) a few years ago and it still pisses me off! My 10-year-old just got bitten by the DG bug this year and it would have been perfect for him right now.
Memorial at Frankenmuth
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  #395  
Old 10-29-2019, 12:36 PM
Central Scrutinizer Central Scrutinizer is offline
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Memorial at Frankenmuth
Terrible news. I haven't had the pleasure to play it.
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  #396  
Old 10-29-2019, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by DiscgolfStu View Post
I think i'm one of the only ones here simpathizing with your point of view, but you aren't seeing it that way, it seems.
I run a parks dept. If you have booked the softball field or tennis courts from, say 1-4 pm, and you show up and there are people playing a casual game there, they are expected to forfeit use of the facility. This is fairly standard practice the world over, I'd assume. If there's a swim meet at the local pool, Jo Shmo just can't show up and swim laps. No reason a disc golf course should be any different. But you have to actually "book" it. The nice thing for us (parks) to do is to post the times that the facilities are booked so the casual players know what to expect and can plan their time accordingly.

In the case of your league night, if you have the course booked, a simple notification should do the trick. Casual players would know to not bother showing up at that time.

Now, the parks dept might not want to book the disc golf course out exclusively to anyone at any time, and that is also their prerogative.
I used to be a parks & rec guy so I also am more sympathetic to his point of view than most in this thread.

I mean we utilized facilities that were in our parks all the time. We ran youth baseball and softball leagues on our main field complex and issued practice permits for the rando stand-alone fields in our other parks. We ran tennis lessons on the tennis courts. We closed our skate park and converted it to a stage area to hold concerts in the park three times a summer. We closed a park for a week to set-up/tear down an annual festival. We issued pavilion permits for picnics every weekend in the Spring/Summer/Fall. We were in charge of those parks and could limit who could use what whenever we wanted to; there were limitless exceptions to the "I'm in a public park so I get to use whatever I want" idea.

You sometimes had dumb conversations like "Excuse me, this is the fallout zone for the fireworks and I'm going to have to ask you to move" "**** YOU! I PAY MY TAXES! I CAN SIT WHERE I WANT!" "Well, I have a police officer on the way and you can discuss your constitutional rights with him." Because there was always THAT guy.

Disc golf has a weird spot in this because traditionally we are a separate, insular group. Disc golf for disc golfers by disc golfers. The parks department can't run disc golf events, a disc golfer has to. So there are leagues all over in public parks run by disc golfers who may or may not actually have permission to run the league. Even if they have permission, the parks department may be (probably are?) hesitant to close access to large sections of a public park for a non-parks department league and will stipulate that the course stay open and the league has to work around it. So there are a limitless amount of these unapproved wildcat leagues that say "let casuals play through" because they don't want to be noticed and approved leagues that say "let casuals play through" because that is the agreement they have in order to have permission to use the park. That in my perception is actually the norm.

Once you move past that and the parks department sees a disc golf league as a legitimate recreational sport and applies actual parks & rec 101 logic to how that league would be run, they become willing to close the course. I mean how would you run a softball league without closing the fields to casual play? "I'm sorry, Tom's Tavern and Brokebat Mountain teams. This bunch of casuals was here first so your game is delayed for the next hour." That's just not how you run recreational programs.

Disc golfers do it, though. It's actually SOP for disc golf leagues. It's SOP for disc golf leagues because we have a 40-year tradition of people running disc golf leagues with no actual training on how you run recreational programs. We have our own disc golf thing we do. You have to be a disc golfer to "get" it. If you come into disc golf from running other sort of recreational programs, a lot of what you have to "get" will make you go "WTF?"

I think this thread has developed into a guy coming into disc golf and still in the "WTF" stage getting flamed by people already indoctrinated into the disc golf way. Once you get indoctrinated into the disc golf way, you stop noticing that it makes everyone from the outside go "WTF?"

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  #397  
Old 10-29-2019, 12:48 PM
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I’m getting the sense that “do leagues have priority “ is right up there with “do you call the number?” And “should jump putts be better-regulated” for repeated circular discussions.

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  #398  
Old 10-29-2019, 01:09 PM
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Hampstead Hampstead is online now
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I can honestly say that of all the doubles I have ever played at dozens of different courses, I have never encountered a situation where the course was closed to casuals. I get 3P's comparison to softball and whatnot (lulz at Brokebat Mountain), but closing an entire course for a handful of people is a foreign concept to me.

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  #399  
Old 10-29-2019, 01:35 PM
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Three Putt Three Putt is offline
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Originally Posted by Hampstead View Post
I can honestly say that of all the doubles I have ever played at dozens of different courses, I have never encountered a situation where the course was closed to casuals. I get 3P's comparison to softball and whatnot (lulz at Brokebat Mountain), but closing an entire course for a handful of people is a foreign concept to me.
It's apples to oranges because you can't have a game and a practice going on at the same time on a softball field, but if you have a 12-team league on a 18-hole course you have a dozen empty holes for casuals to slip in and play. In disc golf it can be done with really no issues at all.

It doesn't become an issue until it's a 30-team league and there are three open holes, but they are all bunched up together in front of me because my card is still looking for my partners black 86 Softie and the casuals are in among the huge backup of teams behind my card. So you are a league card waiting on the tee behind another league card with a third league card waiting behind you and then a group of six casuals wander up behind them. Are those three league cards really going to let the casuals play through? Or has the overall tolerance for casuals on the course reached its limits at that point?

I ran a league with 60+ players; that particular group lost its tolerance for casuals on the course. I ran another league that usually had 10-12 teams; the collective tolerance for casuals stayed intact. Not really scientific or anything, though. Anecdotal evidence is Internet evidence.

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  #400  
Old 10-29-2019, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by R-Ogre View Post
I’m getting the sense that “do leagues have priority “ is right up there with “do you call the number?” And “should jump putts be better-regulated” for repeated circular discussions.
No, no, this is much closer to 'what is par'. The 'Jump putts' argument is a binary decision tree, this is fuzzy.

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