#401  
Old 09-16-2019, 10:01 AM
UhhNegative UhhNegative is offline
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Courses Played: 48
Posts: 634
Niced 202 Times in 154 Posts
Default

Played a freshly new local 9 hole course yesterday. All holes <240' so its a great pitch and putt practice course with nice teepads and baskets that I can get through in less than 30 minutes. But I played terribly. Was muscling everything in every direction but the basket and couldn't be smooth and trust the swing. Seems like progress is two steps forward, one step back. Old habits die hard, but I took the opportunity to focus on my mental game. In past times I would be super bummed and let it flow into the rest of my day, but I was able to shake it off and just chalk it up to a bad day/not letting my body recover from the 21 holes the day before.

I'm getting a throwing net so I can work on my form and take video a lot easier. This should really accelerate things for me.
Sponsored Links
Reply With Quote
  #402  
Old 09-16-2019, 08:57 PM
UhhNegative UhhNegative is offline
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Courses Played: 48
Posts: 634
Niced 202 Times in 154 Posts
Default

While on the topic of putting, I've had a few more thoughts:

1) When I watch sidewinder putt, he's holding the disc at even more of a hyzer than I do, but then putts relatively flat, so he's gotta be supinating through the forward swing to make that angle happen.

2) When I watch Simon putt, his fingers come off the disc and go up and to the right as his hand pronates where his palm ends up facing the ground and fingers flying away from the disc (to the right). Lots of other putters have their hand finish like that too.

I can't feasibly figure out how someone would putt and be able to pronate through the release. Like I see the video but its still impossible in my brain. What am I missing here? Obviously it's spin vs push as well, but that shouldn't matter too much in this question, right? There's something fundamental I'm missing here. I feel like I have to supinate my entire arm to the absolute maximum in order to get the disc near flat. So what's going on here?

Do I need to shift my grip more on top of the disc instead of having my hand more underneath?

Last edited by UhhNegative; 09-16-2019 at 09:01 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #403  
Old 09-16-2019, 09:26 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,254
Niced 2,590 Times in 1,647 Posts
Default

Get the back edge of the disc to swing all the way to the front and out of your hand...it's crazy how it works out. I used to have to feel like I was holding the left wing up to have the disc flat so I know what you're describing. Now it just pops through flat every time for me. I also don't have to think about hand angles or anything, just continuing the disc's momentum through to the target.
Reply With Quote
  #404  
Old 09-16-2019, 11:46 PM
sidewinder22's Avatar
sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Creeping Creek DGC
Years Playing: 13.2
Courses Played: 219
Posts: 15,015
Niced 2,785 Times in 1,714 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by UhhNegative View Post
1) When I watch sidewinder putt, he's holding the disc at even more of a hyzer than I do, but then putts relatively flat, so he's gotta be supinating through the forward swing to make that angle happen.

2) When I watch Simon putt, his fingers come off the disc and go up and to the right as his hand pronates where his palm ends up facing the ground and fingers flying away from the disc (to the right). Lots of other putters have their hand finish like that too.

I can't feasibly figure out how someone would putt and be able to pronate through the release. Like I see the video but its still impossible in my brain. What am I missing here? Obviously it's spin vs push as well, but that shouldn't matter too much in this question, right? There's something fundamental I'm missing here. I feel like I have to supinate my entire arm to the absolute maximum in order to get the disc near flat. So what's going on here?

Do I need to shift my grip more on top of the disc instead of having my hand more underneath?
What is really weird about your putt is your elbow is locked out. I think that is more like shoving the disc forward rather than springing it. It puts your grip more to the back of the disc and get less pop/leverage/spin at the end. Think more inverted basketball free throw or granny shot, you wouldn't ever start with the elbow extended or wait to full extension to spring the wrist. The elbow extends and slows to spring the wrist just like driving. I would start with your stance more staggered left/right instead of being so inline. Your rear foot is moving all around in the backswing instead of being a single point of leverage.

I putt on hyzer although the angle is largely irrelevant inside the circle a la Ken Climo's phone book. I'm just putting the weight/ed end of the disc to the apex of the line going through the chains on the way down. After I address the target with the arm/disc, I let it hang/dingle arm straight down and just feel the weight of it and waggle and then sling it. The arm naturally pronates coming into center and supinates to neutral when it's whipped away from center and depending on how hard the whip, the hand may snap back into pronation. The centrifugal force on the disc from the grip and whip also snaps the disc flattish. I'm not trying to pronate or supinate, just springing the weight to the target.

You can see Simon's hand is shaking with the pole right after release and then snaps palm down. Mine does the same sometimes although I tend to finish higher/high five which would be palm down with the arm horizontal...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlYYZFJmtLI#t=1m20s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhiLUjMMyUY#t=3m
Reply With Quote
  #405  
Old 09-17-2019, 12:11 AM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,254
Niced 2,590 Times in 1,647 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
I'm just putting the weight/ed end of the disc to the apex of the line going through the chains on the way down. After I address the target with the arm/disc, I let it hang/dingle arm straight down and just feel the weight of it and waggle and then sling it. The arm naturally pronates coming into center and supinates to neutral when it's whipped away from center and depending on how hard the whip, the hand may snap back into pronation. The centrifugal force on the disc from the grip and whip also snaps the disc flattish. I'm not trying to pronate or supinate, just springing the weight to the target.
This is a really good description of how it feels to me too. I don't worry about the hand angles anymore, and I can feel the weight of the disc down below my hand sometimes or at weird angles when loading it, but I then feel it sling away from me and it becomes flat through natural range of motion of my arm and also me wanting to direct the disc's mass toward the target.

It's similar to how drives are feeling to me now too...I focus on the angle of the disc's wing and nose through that hit point and I don't have to worry about it so much during the backswing or as it comes forward. As long as it gets pulled to nose down through the hit naturally then all is well.
Reply With Quote
  #406  
Old 09-17-2019, 07:13 AM
UhhNegative UhhNegative is offline
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Courses Played: 48
Posts: 634
Niced 202 Times in 154 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
What is really weird about your putt is your elbow is locked out. I think that is more like shoving the disc forward rather than springing it. It puts your grip more to the back of the disc and get less pop/leverage/spin at the end. Think more inverted basketball free throw or granny shot, you wouldn't ever start with the elbow extended or wait to full extension to spring the wrist. The elbow extends and slows to spring the wrist just like driving. I would start with your stance more staggered left/right instead of being so inline. Your rear foot is moving all around in the backswing instead of being a single point of leverage.

I putt on hyzer although the angle is largely irrelevant inside the circle a la Ken Climo's phone book. I'm just putting the weight/ed end of the disc to the apex of the line going through the chains on the way down. After I address the target with the arm/disc, I let it hang/dingle arm straight down and just feel the weight of it and waggle and then sling it. The arm naturally pronates coming into center and supinates to neutral when it's whipped away from center and depending on how hard the whip, the hand may snap back into pronation. The centrifugal force on the disc from the grip and whip also snaps the disc flattish. I'm not trying to pronate or supinate, just springing the weight to the target.

You can see Simon's hand is shaking with the pole right after release and then snaps palm down. Mine does the same sometimes although I tend to finish higher/high five which would be palm down with the arm horizontal...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlYYZFJmtLI#t=1m20s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhiLUjMMyUY#t=3m
So I've always heard that you want your elbow pretty much locked out on a push putt. Basically only the shoulder joint moves from what I've seen in all the clinics. Unless you are differentiating locked out from slightly bent but not (conciously) changing. Then I could definitely see how that would be an issue.

I did notice that I move my back foot during the backswing, so instead I need to setup with my backfoot where I want it.

I'm just confused because if I let my fingers off the bottom of the flight plate too early, nothing is holding up the disc so it just falls out. So it seems like finishing in pronation there's nothing keeping that disc on the line. Is it supposed to be held more with index finger/thumb? That doesn't seem right either.

Last edited by UhhNegative; 09-17-2019 at 07:16 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #407  
Old 09-17-2019, 11:27 AM
drk_evns's Avatar
drk_evns drk_evns is offline
Par Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Holland, MI
Courses Played: 36
Posts: 237
Niced 128 Times in 85 Posts
Default

I would say stop focusing too much on the specific hand and arm movements and just start trying to manipulate the swing with your weight shift.

Just dangle your arm down and start rocking it back and forth using your feet. You'll start to see how to control the power that way.

Feldberg's YT clinic talks about a locked elbow... and that can help with consistency at short ranges, but I've found I naturally add some elbow movement now and the consistency comes from the quality shift from the ground. Make sure you're actually getting weight loaded on your back foot (you can do this with a back/forward shift or more of a down then forward shift).

I like this clinic a lot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBWQGSePtSQ&t=1236s
Reply With Quote
  #408  
Old 09-17-2019, 11:31 AM
UhhNegative UhhNegative is offline
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Courses Played: 48
Posts: 634
Niced 202 Times in 154 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by drk_evns View Post
I would say stop focusing too much on the specific hand and arm movements and just start trying to manipulate the swing with your weight shift.

Just dangle your arm down and start rocking it back and forth using your feet. You'll start to see how to control the power that way.

Feldberg's YT clinic talks about a locked elbow... and that can help with consistency at short ranges, but I've found I naturally add some elbow movement now and the consistency comes from the quality shift from the ground. Make sure you're actually getting weight loaded on your back foot (you can do this with a back/forward shift or more of a down then forward shift).

I like this clinic a lot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBWQGSePtSQ&t=1236s
I feel like I'm okay at the weight shift/balance aspect but the grip/feel in my hand is so inconsistent sometimes its releasing early/low like a wounded duck and sometimes I'm holding too long and releasing high.

I'll check out that clinic and try a looser/swingy-er arm to try and feel the weight of the disc. I'm surprised I've never come across this clinic before.

Last edited by UhhNegative; 09-17-2019 at 11:35 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #409  
Old 09-17-2019, 11:57 AM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,254
Niced 2,590 Times in 1,647 Posts
Default

This is the best I can explain what I'm feeling, and it has really improved my putting about as much as when I figured out a consistent and balanced weight shift.

This pop/hit feels similar to what I aim for in my drives, except I'm pulling/swinging through this motion during throws.

When I kind of show a more full putting motion at the end, look at how much hyzer angle the disc has the whole time until my "release". I don't even think about it, it just feels fine.

Hold shift and use the arrow keys to go frame by frame if needed.


Niced: (2)

Last edited by slowplastic; 09-17-2019 at 11:59 AM.
Reply With Quote
 

  #410  
Old 09-17-2019, 03:42 PM
sidewinder22's Avatar
sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Creeping Creek DGC
Years Playing: 13.2
Courses Played: 219
Posts: 15,015
Niced 2,785 Times in 1,714 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by UhhNegative View Post
So I've always heard that you want your elbow pretty much locked out on a push putt. Basically only the shoulder joint moves from what I've seen in all the clinics. Unless you are differentiating locked out from slightly bent but not (conciously) changing. Then I could definitely see how that would be an issue.


I'm just confused because if I let my fingers off the bottom of the flight plate too early, nothing is holding up the disc so it just falls out. So it seems like finishing in pronation there's nothing keeping that disc on the line. Is it supposed to be held more with index finger/thumb? That doesn't seem right either.
Even Simon says to lock the elbow and shoulder in that video, lol. If you watch Feldberg putt he definitely bends his elbow significantly. IDK how else you can pop it and spring the wrist?

It's not releasing in pronation. It's snapping/recoiling back into pronation after the release.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Backhand Form Rebuild Journey ponder Form Analysis/Critique 14 10-20-2018 11:51 AM
Reid's bag 2017 UhhNegative Bag Suggestions & Feedback 0 08-08-2017 04:05 PM
Reid's bag - 2017 UhhNegative Bag Suggestions & Feedback 0 03-17-2017 11:53 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.