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Old 09-09-2019, 09:24 PM
Palpack1 Palpack1 is offline
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Default Lizotte pull straight through?

A common instruction tip is to pull in a straight line from full reachback through the hit. In this Simon Lizotte instructional video I noticed something odd. Frame by frame at 1:56 watch the position of the disc in relation to the tree line on the horizon. He does pull in a straight line for most of the pull. But then, at the hit point, it seems that the disc jerks sharply from right to left. I know the elbow is a fulcrum but shouldn't it be tucked so that the disc stays on a straight line? What is going on? It is not an optical illusion because the full picture shows we are looking directly from behind the disc.
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Old 09-09-2019, 09:48 PM
UhhNegative UhhNegative is offline
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You are right, the swing goes from inside to out. Pause any top thrower at release and disc will be very wide from their body. The notion of a "straight" pull through is kind of nonsense. No one pulls on a straight line, and some of the best throwers in the game don't reach back "straight" either (Doss, Schultz, E.Oakley).

The underlying fundamental is that you don't want your body in the way of the swing.
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Old 09-09-2019, 11:06 PM
RandyC RandyC is online now
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and you are not exactly pulling. Swinging, tossing, throwing whatever you want to call it but pull is a bad word for it imo.
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Old 09-09-2019, 11:22 PM
RFrance RFrance is offline
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SW has some good overhead images of this. Look at the Post #1 (bottom) and Post #2 here https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...13#post3452813.

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Old 09-10-2019, 11:48 AM
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Putt for D'oh Putt for D'oh is offline
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I think there is a lot of information out there that is focused on the new player and breaking very common starter habits. But much of that info that seems to initially work is setting up other bad habits that will need to be unlearned to progress much further.

The straight line can be a great mental approach to initially learning and breaking the bad habit of rounding. It can be the queue that gets people over the 300' barrier... but it can also be the road block that keeps people from reaching 350' and introduces grip lock as power increases, especially if there were grip lock problems early that the straight pull through seemed to have fixed. two different issues resulting in the same result.

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Old 09-10-2019, 07:12 PM
Casey 1988 Casey 1988 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Putt for D'oh View Post
I think there is a lot of information out there that is focused on the new player and breaking very common starter habits. But much of that info that seems to initially work is setting up other bad habits that will need to be unlearned to progress much further.

The straight line can be a great mental approach to initially learning and breaking the bad habit of rounding. It can be the queue that gets people over the 300' barrier... but it can also be the road block that keeps people from reaching 350' and introduces grip lock as power increases, especially if there were grip lock problems early that the straight pull through seemed to have fixed. two different issues resulting in the same result.
I learned the slight curl wrist style to the straight line style. I had learned the old method of the straight line style shuffle from the old John Houck video first so to do the other I was at first adding a bunch of wrist curl due to how slow I was at first but as I got faster very quick and got a disc more OS then a Rubber Putter, I was using that and a Wham-O Standard or Jr Pro being almost the same disc, I learned to back off more on the curl so as to not get a disc to almost comeback to me after throwing it. Straight line style makes it easier for me to do backhand roller when I need to use such a shot, I just go as much as I need from the straight line I normally use.
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Old 09-10-2019, 09:44 PM
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DiscJunkie DiscJunkie is offline
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Lizotte does not pull straight through.
Really, no good thrower does.
Now, it's a great "swing thought" and a good teaching instruction for beginners.
But as you throw harder and farther, if you continue to try to pull straight through, you'll develop bad throwing habits (some of which I am working thru now).

I'm not a swing coach or an expert, but it seems to me that the difference between "rounding" and a good form is a matter of degree and form, not straight vs rounding.

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Old 09-10-2019, 10:35 PM
Palpack1 Palpack1 is offline
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I've been working on a straight pull with putters and it did give me a feel for a good snap but awkward. It got me from rounding all the time to feel what it is like not to round and actually increased my distance. I'm trying the "out in out" pull now in my room with a towel and it feels so much more natural and balanced! The hand line not crossing over the elbow line diagram was really helpful. I never understood all the talk about a pendulum or jingle arm because those are vertical and I'm throwing horizontal. Now I see if I'm not pulling straight through my arm is like a jingle arm. The plant feels better. More natural follow through. Very cool! Tomorrow we will see what happens in real life.
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Old 09-10-2019, 11:15 PM
RFrance RFrance is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Palpack1 View Post
I never understood all the talk about a pendulum or jingle arm because those are vertical and I'm throwing horizontal. Now I see if I'm not pulling straight through my arm is like a jingle arm.
Actually, it’s a dingle arm. Which can be used in conjunction with turbo encabulators as stated here at 1:33.



And here is the reciprocating dingle arm in action. https://youtu.be/IXqBJ6eVF7Q?list=PL...DdL4QUMDh&t=45. SW has a gif of this somewhere.

The Reciprocating Dingle Arm is one of Sidewinder's best videos and it is packed with information.


Sidewinder expands on the turbo encabulator here and how it relates to the throw.

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Old 09-11-2019, 02:12 AM
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