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Old 06-23-2019, 02:43 AM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Default Flat Swing Plane Does Not Exist!

So I think a lot of players really struggle finding that effortless distance because they are trying to manipulate the spin of the disc flat by actively curling the wrist and arm into horizontal flexion and extension, and manufacture the rotation of their body from the rear foot and hips which will just spin everything out and around.

There has to be a rotation/twirl sent up through the torso from bracing up on the front leg and rotation out the shoulder to arm/disc like ball on string to keep the release of the disc on the plane you want without hurting yourself. The rear foot is just driving your center of gravity laterally targetward/forward into a tilted axis to twirl from and countering forward behind the front leg to balance against that big inertial burst pulling your center of gravity targetward.

There will be some rotation from the rear foot leveraging against the ground, but you naturally do this walking and running without trying to rotate! It happens as a byproduct of moving forward with how the body works! You have to shift your weight forward/tilt CoG targetward and naturally swivel your pelvis back and forth to walk straight forward efficiently, but you don't have to think about this. This is the same thing when moving lateral to the target efficiently. You will rotate more in the throw because you are bringing the torso and arm/disc swing back and forth to sling it. If you want to make a bigger burst, then make your swing longer/bigger from your center without tipping off balance and you will rotate everything more by shifting back and forth without spinning the feet in the ground.

This would be a theoretical vertical spine and "Flat Swing Plane". It would be hard and awkward trying to shift from one foot to the other foot maintaining this flat swing plane as gravity works against you. This is why I say Flat doesn't really exist. It's also the most inconsistent angle you could attempt to throw on, 1 degree variation is either hyzer or anhyzer. If you want to throw on 10 degree hyzer or anhyzer and miss by +/- a couple degrees, it's not going to change your shot nearly as drastically.


Meanwhile this is totally natural and effortless and working with gravity:



Your stance has be in dynamic alignment to the apex of your shot, either left to right or right to left as there is no such thing as a straight or flat. The disc is either thrown to the left(RHBH) and draw'ed over straight(distance anhyzer/hyzer-flip), or thrown right to left and faded straight(pure hyzer). Your feet have to allow your hips to be setup neutral to your pelvis(hip flexibility) to allow your hips the freedom and natural range of motion to allow the torso to turn back and forth smoothly and effortlessly.




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Last edited by sidewinder22; 07-16-2019 at 11:55 PM.
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Old 06-23-2019, 03:17 AM
Tepi Tepi is offline
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I really like this pendulum thinking, what I haven't figured out is how to not hug myself when doing it. What is your thought process regarding shoulder on this, is it hanging from your socket? How do you prevent it from collapsing? (Might have been in the video but all that info coupled with my bad english feels bit overwhelming sometimes)

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Old 06-23-2019, 04:55 AM
curmudgeonDwindle curmudgeonDwindle is offline
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The flat swing plane does exist and this fact has been brought to your attention previously.

The 'flat swing plane' is a mnemonic device to help the player with alignment and aiming.
No one, not even the mighty sidewinder, can hold all these minute myriad technical details (of which you are a chronicler of note) about the throw in their mind at the same time he attempts to execute. This is the whole reason for a 'swing thought' like, a 'flat swing plane'.

Another example of an 'untrue myth' which is actually a swing thought is Feldberg's suggestion to 'shovel under' when feeling out the mechanics of a push-putt.

The point is that any tool is most useful for the purpose it is designed and appears just as silly when used inappropriately. K.I.S.S.
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Old 06-23-2019, 08:44 AM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curmudgeonDwindle View Post
The flat swing plane does exist and this fact has been brought to your attention previously.

The 'flat swing plane' is a mnemonic device to help the player with alignment and aiming.
No one, not even the mighty sidewinder, can hold all these minute myriad technical details (of which you are a chronicler of note) about the throw in their mind at the same time he attempts to execute. This is the whole reason for a 'swing thought' like, a 'flat swing plane'.

Another example of an 'untrue myth' which is actually a swing thought is Feldberg's suggestion to 'shovel under' when feeling out the mechanics of a push-putt.

The point is that any tool is most useful for the purpose it is designed and appears just as silly when used inappropriately. K.I.S.S.
That's the whole point of the Reciprocating Dingle Arm Drill. Let go of the arm and stop trying to think about things!
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Old 06-23-2019, 10:08 AM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tepi View Post
I really like this pendulum thinking, what I haven't figured out is how to not hug myself when doing it. What is your thought process regarding shoulder on this, is it hanging from your socket? How do you prevent it from collapsing? (Might have been in the video but all that info coupled with my bad english feels bit overwhelming sometimes)
If the shoulder socket is rotating like ball on chain then it is not collapsing. It’s extending.

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Old 06-23-2019, 11:29 AM
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ohtobediscing ohtobediscing is offline
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All this thinking about having fun...what a bummer.

I just feel where I want the disc to go and make the throw, man.⛳


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Last edited by ohtobediscing; 06-23-2019 at 11:31 AM.
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Old 06-23-2019, 11:57 AM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tepi View Post
I really like this pendulum thinking, what I haven't figured out is how to not hug myself when doing it. What is your thought process regarding shoulder on this, is it hanging from your socket? How do you prevent it from collapsing? (Might have been in the video but all that info coupled with my bad english feels bit overwhelming sometimes)
Usually collapsing is because players are pushing off of the rear leg...so the spine and rotation are centered on the back leg but we look at it on video relative to the front leg, so it looks collapsed.

Basically, pushing into rotation from the back leg is the most common cause of collapsing lead shoulder IMO. If you get onto the front leg before throwing, especially with the spine over the front leg and right shoulder closer to the target than your front hip, then your right arm should be pulled correctly rather than collapsing inward. Think like shoulder pulling the arm along for the ride vs. chest getting pushed in toward an extended arm.

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Old 06-24-2019, 04:52 AM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Old 06-25-2019, 09:55 AM
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I'm not trying to kick my leg leg thru or spin my body from the rear foot. The rear leg is being pulled thru from the inertia of the right hand and disc!




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Old 06-25-2019, 03:44 PM
deyo7 deyo7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tepi View Post
I really like this pendulum thinking, what I haven't figured out is how to not hug myself when doing it. What is your thought process regarding shoulder on this, is it hanging from your socket? How do you prevent it from collapsing? (Might have been in the video but all that info coupled with my bad english feels bit overwhelming sometimes)
I can relate to this and possibly explain what Tepi might be going through, with hugging yourself when doing the pendulum ...

I'm wondering if confusions stems partly from misconception that pendulum must be a straight up and down thing. If I go almost straight up and down pendulum arc/extreme hyzer I tend to collapse my shoulder in the backswing.

What I mean is if I typically try to throw like Barry here below and swing my arm way outside (horizontal-ish) during the backswing, I tend to get good pop on the disc. It's not that I'm trying to throw flat either. I believe I throw most everything on a slight hyzer. But if I lower my backswing down low, to what I would think would be a good pendulum, it seems to go haywire. I'm wondering if this is because of a couple things. And the issues are also somewhat related to the misconception that a good pendulum is completely straight up and down (vertical):

I think maybe my arm gets too close to my body when doing this because A) I'm not turning back enough, which helps to get a wider upper arm angle and B) because I'm swinging straight down in backswing and not enough to the side. So essentially, I'm swinging too low in the backswing and not accounting for a good swing plane (the Wysoki high five, et. al) like you show in your two new videos in this thread. Do you follow my confusion?

Barry Shultz - Multi World and USDGC Champ:


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