#671  
Old 11-16-2018, 02:25 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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Originally Posted by Hoeschel View Post
I'm seeing a lot in your form i see in my own looking back. I definitely see the disconnect between upper arm and upper body. I also think, and this is related, that you are turning your hips back too far, especially in the standstill. I might be wrong, but i think when the pros turn their hips back like that, they take a huge last step, which automatically opens them again. But with your small shift, you land in the plant still turned back too far. This means you need to bring the hip around, your upper body follows and you end up with too much weight on the left side. For me the timing of the front foot is the telltale sign.

For me, the fix is/was throwing without much reachback. I create a unit of upper body and upper arm using only the muscles in my back (chest muscles are loose) and keep the disc as wide away from my body as possible (sticking the shoulder out helps). Then i only throw using the lower body, addressing the target like sw does in the OLD. The rigid frame eliminates the disconnect. Keeping the disc wide makes it seem pointless to turn around the front leg, because i would feel out of balance immidiately. The lack of reachback means i don't turn back too far and forces me to focus on the important parts. It all feels very similar to seppos throw i posted above, just way exaggerated. You can actually see it in a lot of pros when the don't throw full power. Kevin Jones is a prime example, or Paul throwing a nova. If anyone is interested i can post videos of them doing it when i get home.

As for the nose up. For me it mostly fixes itself when i get the sequence right.
Yeah this all makes sense. I have to trust that if it's done correctly I'll get efficient power. Keep things together and in sequence...rather than getting long and sloshy.

Good to hear to stick with it and trust that the balance and sequence will fix the nose up issues. It seems like that's the case but it sucks if I want to play a round...I know I can do other things to band-aid it and get consistent releases with current form, but if I want to make the real changes to a proper form I've got to see these poor releases until it all comes together.
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  #672  
Old 11-16-2018, 02:52 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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As for my balance being bad on my rear leg for X-step...I guess just focus on feeling the right thing standstill and then maintain it? A question I have about pro's forward tilt in early X-step though...is the forward tilt like the spine toward target tilt in the kick the can drill? Like you are balanced over the rear leg so you have a tilted spine toward the target as you begin to turn back, then this turns into a spine away from target before you catch the weight on the plant leg? Or is it just a more simple "athletic spine forward" like when running/jogging type of thing to get your momentum to move targetward?
Right it’s simple balance and leverage forward. It looks like you are trying are to shift your weight back in the backswing. Your weight is technically already back at any point in the xstep no matter your balance because you are moving forward or you are already well behind the plant in the xstep and still have to move forward to the plant. So you technically can’t really shift any more weight back no matter the position or balance(but your leverage can change via position) it’s just automatic back because of the steps. So all you need to worry about is turning back and maintaining balance and leverage and momentum and rhythm forward in xstep.

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  #673  
Old 11-16-2018, 03:00 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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Ok that makes sense.

And if I do my righty golf swing I can feel how Shawn Clement has his weight kind of prepared to drop over the plant position...like you rotate/turn in leverage in the backswing and then drop down to start the forward swing. If I try to shift laterally back and then move forward it feels like many separate things. Yet that's my instinct when moving RHBH. I can feel the difference.
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  #674  
Old 11-16-2018, 07:17 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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I actually played a round for once compared to just throwing lately, and the last advice really helped. It felt more like my righty golf swing, how I drop down as the club is still on the way into the apex rather than at the apex...my arm is now a weight that I let swing back with a little lag and I go toe-heel and feel it want to engage forward. So that was a new feeling, something that I will need to spend some time with.

But not shifting back so much, trying to be centered in standstills and just maintain loading leverage in X-step helped me end up in better balance and keep the nose down consistently. I was lacing lines even though this form is new to me, I probably missed my line only twice. So I have to remember...all this is really helping the game of golf. The OLD balance focus has also helped me simplify my FH thought process, I felt like I could keep things a bit more compact than my normal and still have all the power I expect.

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  #675  
Old 11-17-2018, 04:24 PM
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The OLD balance focus has also helped me simplify my FH thought process, I felt like I could keep things a bit more compact than my normal and still have all the power I expect.
I can relate to this one quite a bit. Over the last few weeks I've been focusing on keeping my backhand form tight and balanced. It's transitioned super well to my forehand. I went from looking like a flailing unbalanced mess, to something much closer to how Barsby throws (not that I can flick like him). I haven't really tested it outside the course, but accuracy and distance on the forehand have jumped significantly.
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  #676  
Old 11-17-2018, 06:35 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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Yeah that's how it felt to me...more like Barsby style. I'm sure my reachback is still super long and I'm doing weird things a bit, but I definitely could feel a difference already.

Also disc golf has helped my softball game over time, but now it has helped snowboarding. Today was first day for me of the season, and OLD and hershyzer instantly made my front boards super evenly balanced and effortless. I feel like my butt and chest counter perfectly to carry my weight down the feature, I swivel around with chin over front foot on an imaginary axis, and I can turn myself as backwards as I want without worrying about slipping out to my face. It really shows why people who are "naturally athletic" and understand these motions and balance points are just good at everything quickly.

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  #677  
Old 11-17-2018, 08:32 PM
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YOLD and hershyzer instantly made my front boards super evenly balanced and effortless.
Don't remember what thread, but SW posted a 'how to board slide' vid that finally made Hershyzer make sense to me.
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  #678  
Old 11-17-2018, 09:29 PM
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Don't remember what thread, but SW posted a 'how to board slide' vid that finally made Hershyzer make sense to me.
It was in this thread. Rob is explaining how landing darkside before "the move" is death which is basically the same thing as the backswing being out of sequence or the early backswing when you are turned back before you are leveraged forward of your rear foot.
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This is like the Hershyzer.
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  #679  
Old 11-18-2018, 08:01 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is offline
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It was in this thread. Rob is explaining how landing darkside before "the move" is death which is basically the same thing as the backswing being out of sequence or the early backswing when you are turned back before you are leveraged forward of your rear foot.
Oh that's interesting, I know you posted it earlier but it makes even more sense now. I haven't heard the term "darkside", usually referred to as landing blind, but this makes a lot of sense to me now how it relates to the throw setup. On a snowboard with both feet strapped to the same object, which is a slippery piece of plastic and with it sliding on a slippery metal or plastic obstacle...if your momentum isn't correct and body leverage isn't correct at the start of any move then you're not fixing it at the end.

When people go to throw, they have their feet separate and can push off the ground, so they can start incorrectly and feel like they get their momentum back at the last move, so it feels long and strong but really it's trying to just get them back to somewhere they weren't set up for.

For example when you want to pull the front board back to your forward stance you have to be counter rotated in that balanced hershyzer position. Extreme example is when you do a 270 out that opposite way which is called the pretzel direction since it's so awkward you feel like you twist your body up to force yourself to spin the wrong way out. This is like how you should be set up...you are countered and leveraged through your body all the way from the setup/backswing so that you are ready to unwind at the end of the plant. On the snowboard your arm/upper body stay still and legs rotate...rather than legs planted to ground and unleashing the arm.



The opposite is like when people are turning back before even striding, with knee or hip or shoulder behind back foot and they are already rotated away from the target. This sets you up for just spinning the wrong way. This is how you would take a front board to fakie/switch...as in continue to turn the same direction until you land backwards. You essentially keep shoulders over feet rotating through, when taken to 270 or more it's a "same way" spin out. The initial momentum is to actually turn your upper body past 90 degrees to give yourself leverage to keep turning out of the feature. And you typically feel like you're setting your weight/axis over your rear foot, rather than the front foot as in the pretzel or back to forward move.

My point is...when you are strapped in and along for the ride once your momentum starts, it's very easy to tell what way you're going to be forced to keep turning. But when you're walking through a throw and pre-rotated backwards it feels like you're going to have a really big load up and transfer of weight and rotation...but really you've sloshed your momentum away from the intended direction and you're just fighting yourself to try to get anything back.

It's pretty interesting how this correlates between seemingly unrelated things.


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  #680  
Old 11-18-2018, 09:36 PM
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...if your momentum isn't correct and body leverage isn't correct at the start of any move then you're not fixing it at the end.

When people go to throw, they have their feet separate and can push off the ground, so they can start incorrectly and feel like they get their momentum back at the last move, so it feels long and strong but really it's trying to just get them back to somewhere they weren't set up for.

My point is...when you are strapped in and along for the ride once your momentum starts, it's very easy to tell what way you're going to be forced to keep turning. But when you're walking through a throw and pre-rotated backwards it feels like you're going to have a really big load up and transfer of weight and rotation...but really you've sloshed your momentum away from the intended direction and you're just fighting yourself to try to get anything back.

It's pretty interesting how this correlates between seemingly unrelated things.
Yep, with two independent feet you can kind of get away with terrible positions(certainly not ideal), like SC says when you go from One Leg Drill back to two feet it opens up a whole can of worms.

So we should be calling the x-step the pretzel.

Relating things:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yz-jmLrT25k#t=3m

I might be learning some of the lingo

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