#21  
Old 05-04-2018, 11:04 PM
deyo7 deyo7 is offline
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Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
Yeah the faster/higher speed the disc the finer line you ride with it being a turnover disc. You have a minimum velocity to get it to go negative in the HSS, and since it is being overpowered, any poor torque or extra wind or anything like that will knock it around like crazy. And with faster discs if you overpower them too much they will then flip really really fast.

Generally I find that putters that work good as turnover driving putters will likely be straight at <150', more power than that they will show turn. If they are too flippy even at very low ranges, then if you throw them with any real velocity they almost become a trick disc with how fast they flip.

For mids I feel that number should be about 250' for a lot of premium plastic mids...below 250' of power they will be dead straight and more power than that they will drift right RHBH. Again, there are discs meant to turn sooner than this, but my point is they become very finicky at a range that many players who are skilled enough to use this shot type would typically throw them. Then look at the pro's in comparison...they use beat in OS mids as their turnover mids since they likely throw them 300+ minimum, or at least put that much power on them and throw them lower in closer ranges.

The easiest discs to learn these shots with is probably baseline or pro/X equivalents...like a DX Roc with some use or an X Buzzz or something like that. Comets of course, but some are more flippy while other X Comets are actually firmly straight.

Anyways, point is that this is not an easy shot to throw, so if you want to try some MVP just get one of the universally loved molds IMO.
Yeah. Although I think gyro adds a touch of stability to make things little more dummy proof, I agree grab the universally loved. My recommendation are above, as my thoughts were the same. You want your first gyro experience to be good.
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  #22  
Old 05-04-2018, 11:19 PM
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ThrowaEnvy ThrowaEnvy is offline
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Yo. I throw the most understable stuff MVP offers, the Tangent likely won't drift right on you maybe in plasma but it's a little soft. Not g star soft but worn champion and worse in the summer. Theory is next step down kinda like a Tangent with a couple years use it is probably your best bet for that slot.

I totally dig the Vertex it's their most understable.. With a weird kind of final soft fade that you can use or overpower at the end of the flight when gyro wears off. I interchange it with my Spin for wrong way drifts. The Spin by the way is awesome for that anny role you are trying to fill. I throw it flat and I can count on it to ride a gentle anhyzer.

I don't have any problems with the Vertex burning but I'm used to Comets and max out at about 250' with a mid. Your Comet shouldn't be burning.. I think you bought a Z one right? How far are you throwing it?

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  #23  
Old 05-04-2018, 11:22 PM
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armiller armiller is offline
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Originally Posted by TripleB View Post
What is the Plasma most comparable to from Trilogy or Innova?

From the looks of the numbers it seems like it would be very flexible...I'm only 8 months into disc golf but that's already one of my pet peeves...cannot stand really flexible/floppy discs such as my GStar Thunderbird - even if it flew perfectly I don't think I could stand throwing that plastic!

I appreciate your help!

TripleB
Plasma is pretty flexible. I don't know the Trilogy stuff well. I just know that their Z type of stuff that you asked about tends to be a little softer than Discraft/Innova. Maybe I could say I hate Gstar, but Plasma feels like a better Gstar that I can get behind. It's not floppy. One thing about gyro discs is that the stiff gyro overmold makes even a "softer" Plasma plastic act more firm in the hand. Proton, on the other hand, seems way more firm than Z/Champ. They have a soft proton that I haven't tried. Maybe you would like it?

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Old 05-04-2018, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
So if you want to try some MVP just get one of the universally loved molds IMO.
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Originally Posted by deyo7 View Post
You want your first gyro experience to be good.
What are the most loved MVP/Axiom molds that would make my first experience with their discs enjoyable?

I'm looking at an Atom (Electron, Firm Electron, or Proton plastic) as my putter.

As far as other disc needs for my bag: all my fairways I love (Underworld, River, Explorer), love my Fury for understable distance, love my verdict for an overstable mid, Convict works well as an overstable disc longer than the Explorer, have a Trespass as a really longer overstable disc but not consistent enough with it yet (but getting there), utility putters are set (Mirage for turnover and Pure for all others), Escape works well for straight distance but need to change it out (see below)

So that leaves me wanting/needing:
- understable mid
- 10/11 distance disc in the high 150s/low 160s weight because I throw my found 160g Lucid Escape pretty darn good...but it's brown and it takes me forever to find it. (looking at possibly the Insanity or Inertia)
- dependable straight flying mid

I appreciate your help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThrowaEnvy View Post
Yo. I throw the most understable stuff MVP offers, the Tangent likely won't drift right on you maybe in plasma but it's a little soft. Theory is next step down kinda like a Tangent with a couple years use it is probably your best bet for that slot.

Your Comet shouldn't be burning.. I think you bought a Z one right? How far are you throwing it?
So it seems the Tangent would be more of a straight flyer for me...which I could also use (see above). I'll take a look at the Theory....it seems like it gets great reviews as well and is more readily available in the weights I'm used to.

I do have a Z Comet...it's 165g (a little light) but it still doesn't turn over as much as my 169g X Comet. I'll check to see how far it's going for me tomorrow weather permitting.

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Originally Posted by armiller View Post
Maybe I could say I hate Gstar, but Plasma feels like a better Gstar that I can get behind. It's not floppy. One thing about gyro discs is that the stiff gyro overmold makes even a "softer" Plasma plastic act more firm in the hand. Proton, on the other hand, seems way more firm than Z/Champ. They have a soft proton that I haven't tried. Maybe you would like it?
That's good to hear! Definitely don't want anything close to floppy. Hmmm, Proton firmer than Champion? How does the grip compare to Champion?

I appreciate your help!

TripleB
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  #25  
Old 05-05-2018, 12:06 AM
slowplastic slowplastic is online now
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I'd go with the Envy. Although you have the Pure, which is a great straight/neutral driving putter, the Envy takes more power and ignores mild to moderate wind extremely well. It can handle flick approaches, although I know you have weird handedness things going on. It is good for holding hyzer lines. It'll be kind of like a speed 3 Verdict in a way, whereas the Pure is more like the Buzzz SS....they can work together.

I have not thrown an Axis for quite some time, but I remember it being extremely straight for an MVP midrange. I don't remember it being super glidey though, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it held lines very well.
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Old 05-05-2018, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
I'd go with the Envy. Although you have the Pure, which is a great straight/neutral driving putter, the Envy takes more power and ignores mild to moderate wind extremely well. It can handle flick approaches, although I know you have weird handedness things going on. It is good for holding hyzer lines. It'll be kind of like a speed 3 Verdict in a way, whereas the Pure is more like the Buzzz SS....they can work together.

I have not thrown an Axis for quite some time, but I remember it being extremely straight for an MVP midrange. I don't remember it being super glidey though, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it held lines very well.
Agree. I'd suggest the Proxy and Envy as "starter" Gyro discs.

Also agree that the Axis is a dead-straight mid, and is not glidey. Then again, I find most MVP/Axiom discs to not be particularly glidey...
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Old 05-05-2018, 01:47 AM
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That's good to hear! Definitely don't want anything close to floppy. Hmmm, Proton firmer than Champion? How does the grip compare to Champion?
I don't really notice the grip. It seems like no matter what plastic I use, I'm always licking my fingers before I throw to make sure I'm happy with the grip. I'm happy with plain ol' super clear/hard champion, where many people like it pearly or grippy or whatever. I guess what I'm saying is that I don't notice a grip problem, but I don't really ever notice grip problems unless it's raining. My favorite MVP/Axiom discs happen to be in Plasma and Neutron, and Proton just hasn't impressed me yet.

The disclaimer is that the Gyro exterior kinda makes it hard to make comparisons from MVP/Axiom to any other company's plastic.

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  #28  
Old 05-05-2018, 07:57 AM
deyo7 deyo7 is offline
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BBB,
Based on your bag, I'd go Envy as well for universally loved. Would have said Proxy or Relay but those would be somewhat redundant to your other discs. (Proxy is better Pure �� and do use Relay as my understable mid though)

Would also pay attention to throwaenvy conversation as he seems to have a handle on understable stuff. I have a older friend that throws spin all the time.

Inertia is less stable than trespass. Id say that over 300ftish is where it is straight though... May fade out until that point.

You seem really concerned about grip and feel. Is there a Scheels near you, any dealer? Proton is harder to see than neutron for what it's worth. Eclipse rim helps if u like proton. Neither are opto but still suffice for 99% of disc golfers. It's true that if wet can be slick. I got a friction glove for snow/wet play.
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Old 05-05-2018, 08:05 AM
deyo7 deyo7 is offline
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Oh also surprised of axis not glidey comments. I have experience of one but was guessing it was one of their more glidey molds. Its not a comet but still seems to have good glide. Mine is eclipse, somewhat domey if recall correctly.
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  #30  
Old 05-05-2018, 01:34 PM
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Thanks to all for your input!

I went out today to work on my form, take a look at the flight of several disc, and to measure my current throwing distance with those disc. After about 2.5 hours here is what I discovered:

- my two favorite straight disc are the Truth and the Buzzz SS...like both equally well, if I were forced to throw one for a chance to will a million dollars I'd pick the Buzzz SS because about every one in fifteen I get the nose up too much with the Truth and it kills the distance

- I am a weak old man...average throw with the Buzzz SS was only 255' and with the Truth 250'...mostly on target so that was nice to see

- I just can't throw a mid and get a consistent turn out of it...my most consistent midrange turnover disc was a Fury (I know, not a midrange) powered down to 60 or so percent

- my M2 disc showed no glide at all today

- I'm incredibly inconsistent with my EMAC Truth

- if you throw an overstable disc on an anhyzer that sucker will glide for days...I know many of you have been telling me this but until I tried it today I didn't believe it---pulled out my Trespass, knew it had headed left on me before, so decided to throw it on an anhyzer (remembering what you all had told me), started left of target line, back to the right of target line, and then beautifully fell within 3 feet of target line...being 8 months in with a 50 year old arm I was pretty happy with my 327' throw---definitely opened up a whole other aspect of throwing that I hadn't tried yet. And from 45 years of hitting a slice backhand in tennis the anhyzer feels very natural for me

So, now I'm pretty confused about my needs: current thinking is a slight turnover mid, a putter (leaning towards Atom but many of you are saying Envy might be a great disc to try), and now that I see how throwing an anhyzer can increase my distance I'd like to find a distance disc that could possibly get me even more distance than the Trespass

I appreciate everyone's time and help!!!

TripleB
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