#401  
Old 09-27-2022, 10:55 AM
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Brychanus Brychanus is offline
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^Sorry, I'll publicly air part of my struggle as my knowledge changes in real time. I'm not happy with what was happening there and don't want others to suffer any delusions.

I had better drive leg action but an incomplete rear rock and shift forward and abruptly into the plant.

I'm going to get a little deeper into the current tweaks as I'm getting better from foot to foot and then circle back to this with takeaways. Thanks to the gang for helping me push!

Cross referencing to what happened next in my Form Critique so you can see how the action is cleaning up.
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  #402  
Old 09-27-2022, 02:10 PM
Waddball Waddball is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinkles View Post
I was out playing today and focusing on working around the disc. After the round, I looked at a video my buddy shot and realized I was still way overturning in the backswing. So we played 9 more holes and I was thinking about committing to locking the hips and not overturning.

It feels very foreign, and you immediately feel like some bad things are happening. First the lack of rotation feels like you are losing power, and second the backswing feels like you are rounding bad.

What I realized was actually happening is that I felt like I was rounding because my shoulders were just turning back much later. Normally in the backswing my shoulders swing back bringing my arm around much earlier in the swing but in this approach it felt like my shoulders rocked back and my arm was more like a piston in the back swing pushing more straight back.

The other thing I noticed was that all the sudden my lats and delts were engaged in the swing. When I overturn in my backswing my lats are just a string connecting hips to shoulder and in the downswing my hips pull the string. In this approach, the delay made it feel much more like my lats were not just pulled by my hips, but contracting and adding power -- same for my rear delt. Overturning feels powerful but really keeps some of your big muscles out of the throw and puts a lot of pressure on just your hips and a hard pull through to generate power.

Another thing I noticed was that it felt like my hand was more on the outside of the disc in the swing and like I was applying tremendous leverage to the disc and I would swear I was putting more RPM on the disc. The disc seemed to fly straighter and toward the end of its flight didn't dump as hard.

I was doing this for a few holes and threw my best tee shot over on one hole parking a 400' hole. In my mind it felt more like I was throwing in a swedish style like GG or Feldy.

In my mind it felt more like I was rocking the shoulders rather than turning them and it kept my rotational axis in the right place. When you overturn, your axis starts on the rear heel and shoulder and then transfers to be your front heel and shoulder. Its like your trailing side is the hinge of the door and then you close the door and move the hinges to the other side and open it. It's hard to describe. With this approach the hinges are more where they are supposed to be the whole time on rear shoulder ish and brace heel but the door rocks into that brace rather than opening in the backswing and closing.

It was like you said that other parts of the throw seemed to fall into place but it is a hard bad habit to break because it seems so counterintuitive. Anyways, thought I'd share my feelings on it too.
I missed this the first time through this (very useful) thread, because I wasn't there yet with my own swing. But the bolded part (and really the whole post) is the feeling I was trying to describe in my recent post (#399). I'm overturning, and introducing a little artificial delay (the hinges moving from trail to lead side). And this feels powerful, and helps with lag, but it takes some big muscles out of the equation, as noted above.

I really noticed this after watching a few pro tournaments and reflecting on their hips vs my hips, and their time from can crush to release vs mine. And also some feedback in the "coiling from the core" recent thread, with concerns about "firing the hips" and overemphasizing the lower vs the thoracic back.

To bring this back fully on topic: be wary of overturning to "guarantee" your hips rock. I'm thinking of this overturning as a form of jamming. I'm wrestling with fixing this, but it's challenging as I feel with more lateral (not actually lateral, just not exaggerated and overturned) hips I don't have nearly as much room for the disc and my off arm.
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