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Old 10-20-2019, 10:55 PM
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Default Umbrella Resting on Ground During Throw

While watching a SemiFinal Round of the 2019 DGPT Championship I saw something that made me think.

Garrett Gurthie was putting out on Hole 13 and had a literal drop-in. Rain was forecast and he was carrying an umbrella, and as he stepped up to the basket he had the umbrella in his left hand with the point resting on the ground. He dropped in with his right hand and went off to the next hole.

It was a very casual thing and I didn't give it much thought at the moment, but wonder now if it was technically a rule violation. And if so, what rule?

It wouldn't seem to be an illegal device, as it doesn't directly assist in making a throw. Some kind of artificial support thing? The rules refer to a supporting point as part of the body in contact with the playing surface or any other object that provides support but I don't think that is where they were going with this...

Taken to the inevitable crazy internet message board extreme, can I stick my umbrella into that terrible bush where my disc lies, call it a supporting point, and throw from out in the clear??
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  #2  
Old 10-21-2019, 05:34 AM
cheesethin cheesethin is offline
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I think an umbrella can be considered an illegal device under 813.2, depending on the situation. A clear example would be, a sloped, muddy green, with tricky footing, and a player leaning on their umbrella to improve their balance.

At this point it is directly assisting in the throw. A throw is made from the ground up, so any assistance in maintaining balance, or any assistance in applying force to the throw by pushing down on the umbrella - is directly assisting in the throw.

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Originally Posted by markmcc View Post
The rules refer to a supporting point as part of the body in contact with the playing surface or any other object that provides support but I don't think that is where they were going with this...
The implication in the bolded bit is the objects are part of the course, IE trees, rocks, park benches. Players equipment is not part of the course. So no you can't stick your umbrella tip into your tricky lie and call or good .

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Last edited by cheesethin; 10-21-2019 at 05:36 AM.
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Old 10-21-2019, 02:28 PM
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Putt for D'oh Putt for D'oh is offline
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Originally Posted by cheesethin View Post
I think an umbrella can be considered an illegal device under 813.2, depending on the situation. A clear example would be, a sloped, muddy green, with tricky footing, and a player leaning on their umbrella to improve their balance.

At this point it is directly assisting in the throw. A throw is made from the ground up, so any assistance in maintaining balance, or any assistance in applying force to the throw by pushing down on the umbrella - is directly assisting in the throw.



The implication in the bolded bit is the objects are part of the course, IE trees, rocks, park benches. Players equipment is not part of the course. So no you can't stick your umbrella tip into your tricky lie and call or good .

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I think you kind of answered correctly but would seem the umbrella is not inherently an illegal device, UNLESS its used to support/assist.

So, it can be inconsequential and ignored, unless it is used to support/assist and at that point it becomes illegal.
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Old 10-21-2019, 02:50 PM
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The current ruling is that only stationary objects behind your lie, like a larger tree trunk that won't bend while holding it, can legally provide support during your throw. So can't use the umbrella for support. Where this has been discussed before is when Ricky has been seen holding on to his cart handle while dropping in his putt. That's not allowed either. Whether anyone would call it is another matter.

This rule came about to this more restrictive version in the past 10 years or so. People had been seen holding on to a player to help support them when trying to throw from a steeper bank. Even though that seemed acceptable at the time, the rules committee eventually decided that holding onto anything that was mobile or movable behind your lie that was providing support should not be allowed.

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Old 10-21-2019, 03:10 PM
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brutalbrutus brutalbrutus is online now
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Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
The current ruling is that only stationary objects behind your lie, like a larger tree trunk that won't bend while holding it, can legally provide support during your throw. So can't use the umbrella for support. Where this has been discussed before is when Ricky has been seen holding on to his cart handle while dropping in his putt. That's not allowed either. Whether anyone would call it is another matter.

This rule came about to this more restrictive version in the past 10 years or so. People had been seen holding on to a player to help support them when trying to throw from a steeper bank. Even though that seemed acceptable at the time, the rules committee eventually decided that holding onto anything that was mobile or movable behind your lie that was providing support should not be allowed.
Do they get a waiver for the Hambrick(or the Hoover Westside Ctier) in rainy years when they use that rope on the steep muddy hill hole on the temp course? I don't think its actually there to help with throwing but I have heard multiple people talk about having to throw while holding on to that rope. Otherwise they would just slide down the hill.

Last edited by brutalbrutus; 10-21-2019 at 03:13 PM.
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Old 10-21-2019, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by brutalbrutus View Post
Do they get a waiver for the Hambrick(or the Hoover Westside Ctier) in rainy years when they use that rope on the steep muddy hill hole on the temp course? I don't think its actually there to help with throwing but I have heard multiple people talk about having to throw while holding on to that rope. Otherwise they would just slide down the hill.
Waiver would likely be worth pursuing simply so players knew it was acceptable to grab the rope. However, if it were possible, having an optional DZ for casual relief when in that situation might have been a better, safer alternative.

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Old 10-21-2019, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
This rule came about to this more restrictive version in the past 10 years or so. People had been seen holding on to a player to help support them when trying to throw from a steeper bank. Even though that seemed acceptable at the time, the rules committee eventually decided that holding onto anything that was mobile or movable behind your lie that was providing support should not be allowed.
Ought to be even more restrictive, as in not being able to use anything for support.
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Old 10-21-2019, 04:14 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Ought to be even more restrictive, as in not being able to use anything for support.
Like Casper the Friendly Ghost?

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Old 10-21-2019, 04:15 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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..the rules committee eventually decided...
The Rules Committee does not make the decisions. The Board does.
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Old 10-21-2019, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
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The Rules Committee does not make the decisions. The Board does.
It's hard to tell when the recommendation comes from the RC that the Board approves or the Board creates or revamps a rule on their own.

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