#41  
Old 06-16-2021, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by crabapillar View Post
This is why the industry hasn't improved since it's birth; it's deemed acceptable in the disc golf community to get something close to what you paid for or maybe you'll get lucky and find a good one or one you like. There has been so much variance over the last couple decades that it's just accepted that what gets pumped out is entirely random. I see countless threads about people discussing the issue with parting lines over many many years and what has changed?

I think your statement that disc golfer's complain a lot is inaccurate; it should be that disc golfers are push overs and kind of lazy when it comes to pushing for improvements. And I'm actually a huge Teebird fan, by far my favorite disc and I don't think there is a perfect Teebird or even a perfect one for me. My only expectation when buying one is that I receive the weight, color, and plastic type that I ordered without any glaring flaws in the surface. Like I stated earlier in this post, I just bought 3 new ones, all have quite obvious issues in the plastic. Would that be acceptable to you? Good luck going to a physical store now thumbing through those boxes looking for that magical disc you seek when they were all sold online while you were putting gas in your car to get there.

It's clear that cost is your biggest concern and keeping that low outweighs receiving better products. Typically cost isn't affected that much if things are done correctly; less defects typically offset the cost associated with process improvement. Think about it; what other industry doesn't package its products? Disc golf manufacturer's just toss discs in a cardboard box and ship them off, the only time I've seen a disc packaged was when it went to a non disc golf retailer like Dick's. Disc golf seems to be the only industry that hasn't improved with the times; for goodness sake they're still stamping discs by hand. That's about as laughable as it gets; any decent manufacturing company would have automated that process decades ago. They've been stagnant likely since they started and it's all very evident now as they are making no progress toward catching up on supply. What else is in massive shortage still due to covid??? Even with the entire world racing out to buy toilet paper all at once, that industry was able to meet the demand sooner than later.

Look at Discmania now; Innova can't meet their demand so nothing available from their original line. Why? Because Innova hasn't grown or improved in any way; they've been content just getting by and producing a so so product for many years. Not only does this hurt them but it hurts the discmania's, infinite discs, and the millenium's that rely on them for their products. Not to mention the customer's that are switching to other brand's because they can no longer buy the discs they've grown to love.

After reading that lost post I feel like a lot of issues in the disc golf industry center around old vs new. Those that have been playing for a good amount of years that have figured out a way to work around all the issues, where as the people that are newer to the game are starting to realize just how goofy and behind it is in relation to how any other successful business is run today and are trying to drive change within it.

Look at all the online retailers today that have begun weighing, taking pictures, and describing the parting line on the discs they're selling. Why are they doing this? Because it's very clear that people today care what they're getting and also because it's very clear that the manufacturer's can't be trusted to do something as simple as weigh a disc accurately or produce 100 of a like mold that all fall within a small range of variation. We act like they're making discs by hand; one by one; and each one is special and unique. lmao Why even have flight numbers or weights if the train of thought is that you just need to find one that works for you or hopefully get lucky to find one you want. If that's the case we don't need those things; we can just say the disc goes left, right, or kind of straight and the rest is up to you to figure out.
What hasn't changed is disc golfers (by and large) being cheap. I'd love consistent plh, but I'm not sure if I'd be willing to pay for it. Depends how big the premium is.

If you really want improvements to happen, you need to show the manufacturers that there's a market for what you're proposing. Maybe one of those online petitions would work. Ask people to sign on if they would be willing to pay $xx for discs with consistent plh and no flashing.

Then the disc manufacturers can run the numbers and see if they can make an acceptable margin in that scenario.

Or put your money where your mouth is and do it yourself. You seem to have this all figured out. Show Innova and the rest that they don't know their own business by taking their market share with superior discs.
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  #42  
Old 06-16-2021, 03:42 PM
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reezyF reezyF is offline
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Been waiting since black friday for a good place for this gripe:

When prodigy came out with their 'Ace line' of cheaper discs I waited till black friday and bought several to try while they were on sale. The stock Ace line discs are stamped with their name ie P model S and a redundant descriptor, ie "stable putt and approach".

Of the 5 or so I purchased, I think only one had a 'correct' stamp where the descriptor matched the name. For example - one M model US (an UnderStable Mid) has the wording "overstable mid range", the other MmodelUS says "stable mid range". Same went for the FmodelOS and one of the drivers.

I wanted to believe it was intentional but when I got the MmodelUS marked as 'overstable' it made me think something must be up. It cant be a coincidence the discs look and feel cheaper and are made in china...

no more Ace line for me
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  #43  
Old 06-16-2021, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by autocrosscrx View Post
Cars and anything that uses computer chips. I can't get the tires I want to buy. I've been waiting months for upgraded wheel studs for my car. I bought a lightweight battery for my car and waited 7 months to get terminal adapters. I had to change brands of deodorant and peanut butter. I can't buy my favorite soft drinks because of an aluminum shortage. Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.
Missed the shortage part. In addition shortages continue for powdered metal, steel bar stock, PLASTIC PELLETS, etc. We're looking at lead times of 52 weeks(!) for anything using a pcba. Not out of the woods yet.

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  #44  
Old 06-16-2021, 03:51 PM
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I do understand the frustration of getting bad products from ordering online, but I don't think blaming the manufacturer is the answer either. Blame the store for sending bad products, the store should blame the manufacturer. Maybe the store is doing shady things behind the scenes with a disgruntled warehouse manager, who knows.

The fact that most replies on here say quality has not been an issue for them might be important to note...

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  #45  
Old 06-16-2021, 04:14 PM
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I mean this is the industry that brought us Destrulcans. Destrulcans were a real thing. They ran Destroyers with the Vulcan top, stamped them as Destroyers and sent them out. They sent out a lot of them. The TeeDevil is out now and is what Destrulcans were. So there is really no hiding what happened there.

Innova so far as I know never admitted at the time that the Destroyers had the wrong top. They never did any sort of refund, recall, nothing. If you got one, you had one. Destroyers were the biggest driver in the game at the time (probably still is) and were hugely popular. Nothing happened, though. We just waited for Innova to run a new batch with the right top.

That's the quality control standard for making golf discs. You can't even be 100% sure the disc has the right mold pieces. The QMS always had the Stingray wing and all of a sudden has the beaded Super Stingray wing for a run. The Stingray top wore out and they made Stingrays with the Cobra top and just stamped them Stingrays. Eagles for years could have the Eagle X or Eagle L wing; they switched back and forth willy-nilly with no warning. There is a long, long history of "somebody had too many lunch beers"-level screw-ups with golf discs. No manufacturer that I'm aware of has ever owned up to one of these screw ups; they just sell the discs.

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  #46  
Old 06-16-2021, 04:30 PM
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Yeah, but those 'mistakes' were probably intentional, lol.
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  #47  
Old 06-16-2021, 04:52 PM
dmoore1998 dmoore1998 is offline
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Originally Posted by crabapillar View Post

They've been stagnant likely since they started and it's all very evident now as they are making no progress toward catching up on supply. What else is in massive shortage still due to covid??? Even with the entire world racing out to buy toilet paper all at once, that industry was able to meet the demand sooner than later.
So I'm going to ignore the entire rest of this and focus just on this because the logic is severely misguided but something I've seen argued multiple times.

Toilet paper=There was a singular one-time rush to stock up on toilet paper, not to consume it. The industry WAS able to meet the demand relatively quickly...because all those people who stockpiled toilet paper all of a sudden didn't need to buy any for a long time.

It's VERY easy to catch up to demand when a small segment of the population temporarily stockpiles a product that they won't even use up any faster. A small segment increases their demand over a very short period, then that same group reduces their demand over subsequent periods. It's super easy to catch up with just normal production. And toilet paper companies fell into "essential worker" categories to stay open and keep producing, unlike some disc golf companies.
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  #48  
Old 06-16-2021, 04:53 PM
pjhayes7 pjhayes7 is offline
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I know it has been mentioned before, though not sure if in this thread. A major and likely primary reason for differences between runs is the plastic. This is not a QC issue, it is a raw materials issue. The disc manufacturers are small to medium size businesses. I bet a single order or plastic pellets at a large injection molding company would dwarf what the disc manufacturers order at one time. They do not have the buying power to purchase a giant lot of the same plastic that will last so long that you will not see variations in the plastic for years. Plastic used to make discs is the leftovers. It is what these companies can get. They are almost certainly not ordering enough quantity from their supplier to demand this shipment be exactly the same as last shipment. As always, i like to point out i am being slightly hyperbolic, but my point still stands.

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  #49  
Old 06-16-2021, 04:56 PM
dmoore1998 dmoore1998 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Putt View Post
I mean this is the industry that brought us Destrulcans. Destrulcans were a real thing. They ran Destroyers with the Vulcan top, stamped them as Destroyers and sent them out. They sent out a lot of them. The TeeDevil is out now and is what Destrulcans were. So there is really no hiding what happened there.

Innova so far as I know never admitted at the time that the Destroyers had the wrong top. They never did any sort of refund, recall, nothing. If you got one, you had one. Destroyers were the biggest driver in the game at the time (probably still is) and were hugely popular. Nothing happened, though. We just waited for Innova to run a new batch with the right top.

That's the quality control standard for making golf discs. You can't even be 100% sure the disc has the right mold pieces. The QMS always had the Stingray wing and all of a sudden has the beaded Super Stingray wing for a run. The Stingray top wore out and they made Stingrays with the Cobra top and just stamped them Stingrays. Eagles for years could have the Eagle X or Eagle L wing; they switched back and forth willy-nilly with no warning. There is a long, long history of "somebody had too many lunch beers"-level screw-ups with golf discs. No manufacturer that I'm aware of has ever owned up to one of these screw ups; they just sell the discs.
It's also one of the rare industries where those things happen, and a LOT of people react with "awesome, I can't wait to pay a ton of money for that mistake, who has some?".

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  #50  
Old 06-16-2021, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by dmoore1998 View Post
It's also one of the rare industries where those things happen, and a LOT of people react with "awesome, I can't wait to pay a ton of money for that mistake, who has some?".
Did you not see that $20 bill with a banana sticker on it?
https://www.11alive.com/article/news...8-a1fdb6fefce4
We're not the only ones.
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