#1  
Old 05-10-2021, 08:40 AM
fishballer06 fishballer06 is offline
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: PA
Years Playing: 3.3
Courses Played: 29
Posts: 590
Niced 91 Times in 58 Posts
Default Noticing wrong scores after the event

Saturday I played in my first tournament of the year. I thought I legitimately had a chance at winning this one based on the field, but instead I shot my worst rated round ever in the first round. So for the second round, I played totally relaxed because I knew I couldn't win any more and I ended up shooting the hot round for my division. That's where it gets interesting.

Because I knew I couldn't win, I didn't bother verifying scores with the live score keeper on my card (I know, my fault) at the end of the round. Come this morning and I'm checking the hole by hole scores and I noticed in my second round, on a par 4 hole, my score is a 5. I know for certain that I birdied that hole (3). This being a 2 stroke swing, and about 22 points in ratings.

I also noticed that the person keeping score had scored himself a 7 on a long, challenging par 5 hole that he actually took a 10 on.

Now the scores are already done, and I don't think it would have made a difference in either of our final placements for the event, but it ethically isn't right. Is there anything I can do at this point with the TD and/or PDGA? Or do I just chalk it up as a learning experience to always verify my scores?
Sponsored Links
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-10-2021, 09:19 AM
Discette's Avatar
Discette Discette is offline
Independent Operator*
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Rancho Cucamonga
Years Playing: 24.9
Courses Played: 562
Posts: 2,036
Niced 1,166 Times in 407 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishballer06 View Post
Saturday I played in my first tournament of the year. I thought I legitimately had a chance at winning this one based on the field, but instead I shot my worst rated round ever in the first round. So for the second round, I played totally relaxed because I knew I couldn't win any more and I ended up shooting the hot round for my division. That's where it gets interesting.

Because I knew I couldn't win, I didn't bother verifying scores with the live score keeper on my card (I know, my fault) at the end of the round. Come this morning and I'm checking the hole by hole scores and I noticed in my second round, on a par 4 hole, my score is a 5. I know for certain that I birdied that hole (3). This being a 2 stroke swing, and about 22 points in ratings.

I also noticed that the person keeping score had scored himself a 7 on a long, challenging par 5 hole that he actually took a 10 on.

Now the scores are already done, and I don't think it would have made a difference in either of our final placements for the event, but it ethically isn't right. Is there anything I can do at this point with the TD and/or PDGA? Or do I just chalk it up as a learning experience to always verify my scores?
PDGA requires every card to use a backup scoring method. The backup scorecard should back you up.

Going forward, report this to the TD. Your cardmates or the backup scorecard for the round should be able to verify your statements. If the other players can't or won't verify the statements: live and learn. If they can verify the scores, or there is a backup scorecard to verify, then you and the TD will need to give the information to the PDGA Disciplinary committee.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-10-2021, 09:26 AM
JRW III JRW III is offline
Double Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Cypress, TX
Years Playing: 12.4
Courses Played: 44
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 1,108
Niced 115 Times in 69 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishballer06 View Post
Saturday I played in my first tournament of the year. I thought I legitimately had a chance at winning this one based on the field, but instead I shot my worst rated round ever in the first round. So for the second round, I played totally relaxed because I knew I couldn't win any more and I ended up shooting the hot round for my division. That's where it gets interesting.

Because I knew I couldn't win, I didn't bother verifying scores with the live score keeper on my card (I know, my fault) at the end of the round. Come this morning and I'm checking the hole by hole scores and I noticed in my second round, on a par 4 hole, my score is a 5. I know for certain that I birdied that hole (3). This being a 2 stroke swing, and about 22 points in ratings.

I also noticed that the person keeping score had scored himself a 7 on a long, challenging par 5 hole that he actually took a 10 on.

Now the scores are already done, and I don't think it would have made a difference in either of our final placements for the event, but it ethically isn't right. Is there anything I can do at this point with the TD and/or PDGA? Or do I just chalk it up as a learning experience to always verify my scores?
There is no "fix" to your score. You would gain 2 strokes on the scorecard, but also get a 2 stroke penalty for submitting an incorrect score, so the net would be no change

Niced: (2)
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-10-2021, 09:28 AM
fishballer06 fishballer06 is offline
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: PA
Years Playing: 3.3
Courses Played: 29
Posts: 590
Niced 91 Times in 58 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Discette View Post
PDGA requires every card to use a backup scoring method. The backup scorecard should back you up.

Going forward, report this to the TD. Your cardmates or the backup scorecard for the round should be able to verify your statements. If the other players can't or won't verify the statements: live and learn. If they can verify the scores, or there is a backup scorecard to verify, then you and the TD will need to give the information to the PDGA Disciplinary committee.
Yeah, I agree. Live and learn. One person was keeping live scoring on PDGA, and the other person kept a paper score card. Thinking back on it, at the end of the round, the guy with the paper score card read off each person and the total score they took. The guy doing live scoring just agreed and said he had the same score after each score he read off. More than likely, he was lying by just agreeing with him.

Looking through the PDGA Rulebook, I found rule 808.G.2.

Quote:
G: After the scorecard has been turned in, the total score as recorded is final, except for the following circumstances:

2. If the total score is incorrect, improperly recorded, or missing, two penalty throws are added to the correct total score. Those penalty throws are not added when the score has been adjusted for other violations determined after the player had turned in an otherwise correct scorecard.
In this instance for me, if the score got corrected for myself, my score would improve by the two strokes, but then the 2 stroke penalty for an incorrect scorecard would bring me right back to where I am.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-10-2021, 11:56 AM
Discette's Avatar
Discette Discette is offline
Independent Operator*
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Rancho Cucamonga
Years Playing: 24.9
Courses Played: 562
Posts: 2,036
Niced 1,166 Times in 407 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishballer06 View Post
Yeah, I agree. Live and learn. One person was keeping live scoring on PDGA, and the other person kept a paper score card. Thinking back on it, at the end of the round, the guy with the paper score card read off each person and the total score they took. The guy doing live scoring just agreed and said he had the same score after each score he read off. More than likely, he was lying by just agreeing with him.

Looking through the PDGA Rulebook, I found rule 808.G.2.



In this instance for me, if the score got corrected for myself, my score would improve by the two strokes, but then the 2 stroke penalty for an incorrect scorecard would bring me right back to where I am.
The event results won't change for you, but if this guy was cheating, the PDGA needs to know. If you don't report this to the TD and the PDGA, then this player will be free to do this again. You owe it to every other player in your division and all the players in your region to report the activity. Especially if there is a paper scorecard out there with your correct scores......

Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-10-2021, 12:19 PM
txmxer txmxer is offline
Double Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Texas
Years Playing: 1.4
Courses Played: 4
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 1,242
Niced 1,048 Times in 519 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Discette View Post
The event results won't change for you, but if this guy was cheating, the PDGA needs to know. If you don't report this to the TD and the PDGA, then this player will be free to do this again. You owe it to every other player in your division and all the players in your region to report the activity. Especially if there is a paper scorecard out there with your correct scores......
certainly this is true, but I don't think the guy throwing a 10 on a hole (and apparently just generally sucks) is a big threat to the larger group of players.

Not saying he should be let off the hook...definitely report him or at least talk with the TD and compare paper to digital card.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-10-2021, 12:20 PM
biscoe biscoe is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: spotsylvania, va
Years Playing: 26.2
Courses Played: 122
Posts: 7,767
Niced 4,045 Times in 1,558 Posts
Default

pretty sure the TD can update the final results until ratings are processed.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-10-2021, 03:35 PM
DavidSauls's Avatar
DavidSauls DavidSauls is online now
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Newberry, SC
Years Playing: 26.1
Courses Played: 127
Posts: 16,208
Niced 7,110 Times in 2,638 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
pretty sure the TD can update the final results until ratings are processed.
I always assumed it was until all prizes are awarded, based on:

"Penalty throws may be added or removed up until the Director declares the tournament over, or all awards have been distributed."


Though I guess that's not entirely clear.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-10-2021, 03:48 PM
krupicka's Avatar
krupicka krupicka is online now
Double Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Naperville, IL
Years Playing: 20.1
Courses Played: 72
Posts: 1,464
Niced 537 Times in 269 Posts
Default

We've had scores incorrectly transcribed from scorecards to leaderboard that have had to be corrected post awards (including adjusting awards)

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
 

  #10  
Old 05-10-2021, 04:32 PM
Cgkdisc's Avatar
Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is offline
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Twin Cities
Years Playing: 32.4
Courses Played: 727
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 13,367
Niced 3,317 Times in 1,374 Posts
Default

Looks like the Kentucky Derby might have to adjust payouts after the fact. I wonder how that works for wagers, i.e., are they still waiting to pay out $2 tickets?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DGCR scores vs. the rest scores Grinder12000 General Disc Golf Chat 14 06-25-2013 06:59 PM
Noticing the difference in putter beads... Clempson13 Discs 11 11-02-2011 02:48 PM
Posted Scores are wrong...now what? WillACarpenter Tournaments & Leagues 21 05-26-2010 05:13 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.