#21  
Old 06-15-2021, 01:06 PM
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I think it has more to do with their teaching skills than errors in their form. When you take someone whose primary skill is something like throwing a frisbee, which they’re doing by gut feeling and muscle memory, and try to get them to teach that without a lot of practice and instruction in how to teach, some of them are going to do just fine but a lot of them are not.

Edit: shoot, I missed a whole page of the thread where people were saying pretty much this.
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Last edited by R-Ogre; 06-15-2021 at 01:09 PM.
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  #22  
Old 06-15-2021, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by autocrosscrx View Post
People who start out bad at things and have to work really hard to improve have the best opportunity to become great teachers.
Because natural talent is natural. Simon has been playing disc golf longer than Hammes has been alive.

“You can’t coach that.”
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  #23  
Old 06-15-2021, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by autocrosscrx View Post
People who start out bad at things and have to work really hard to improve have the best opportunity to become great teachers.
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Originally Posted by seedlings View Post
Because natural talent is natural. Simon has been playing disc golf longer than Hammes has been alive.

“You can’t coach that.”
I see the logic behind what autocross said... but I'm not sure I necessarily agree with it. What provides the best opportunity to become a great teacher is simply: an understanding that is thorough enough to break down a topic for a lay-person. I don't necessarily believe that starting out as a poor-performing adult or young adult provides a better opportunity for that level of understanding. It comes down to simply having a desire to possess that kind of comprehension. Simon or Eagle could have that level of comprehension, whether they choose to or whether that interests them is the key.

I came to disc golf late so I can't speak as someone who has watched discers from a young age.... but as a running coach I see a parallel there, in something I've experienced from the age of 8 onward: some of the best distance running coaches I know were runners from a very young age, and some of the most useless distance running coaches I know were runners from a very young age. What differentiates the two groups is the desire to study and learn the mechanics of form in one group versus the other.

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Old 06-15-2021, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by seedlings View Post
It’s a shame that nowadays kids don’t mow with decade old push mowers. Remarkable the life lessons taught.
it's because the last generation of kids that had to use those old mowers were smart enough to buy nicer mowers for themselves...their kids are just reaping those benefits

back on topic - rounding, or the appearance of rounding, isn't the real issue - all of the focus should just be on the shoulder angle anyway. If the shoulder doesn't collapse, it's easier to get the elbow forward and the disc into the power pocket.

Wayne Gretzky wasn't a great hockey coach either.
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  #25  
Old 06-15-2021, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by _MTL_ View Post
One of the great cons in disc golf that is that the elite players are the best teachers and that you can't teach unless you are really good.

The best teacher I've had for disc golf is rated around 820.
In most professional sports the players who were "naturals" do not make good teachers or coaches.
Mediocre players who struggled to stay at at the pro level tend to make the best teachers and coaches.

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  #26  
Old 06-16-2021, 07:34 AM
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Ok but rounding is just one example. How about teaching tucking the forefinger under the rim for putt and approach shots and then placing the finger on the rim during play? Surely they have to know they are doing that?
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Old 06-16-2021, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by glassila View Post
Mediocre players who struggled to stay at at the pro level tend to make the best teachers and coaches.
I am a mediocre pro golfer but consider myself a decent teacher. One of the first things I tell people is to do as I say, not as I do. My form is built around compensating for a bad back and should not be emulated.

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  #28  
Old 06-16-2021, 08:55 AM
dmoore1998 dmoore1998 is offline
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Originally Posted by jenb View Post
Ok but rounding is just one example. How about teaching tucking the forefinger under the rim for putt and approach shots and then placing the finger on the rim during play? Surely they have to know they are doing that?
To what end though? They probably do know they're doing that, and it works for them. That doesn't mean they think it's a good idea for the masses.

When I teach someone how to measure/cut/build things, I always give them the old adage "measure twice, cut once". That's a good way for people who don't know what they're doing to do things. Do you think I measure twice all the time? Heck no. It's not worth my time given how infrequently I mess up.

I'm not sure why, when it comes to sports, people don't grasp the concept that things which are good to teach the masses aren't necessarily correlated to how experienced folks do things. Does ANYONE drive their car the way that new drivers are taught to drive as the "best way"? I've never seen it.

Or for a disc golf example...standard advice seems to be "start out playing with putters"...imagine the ridiculousness of someone going up to a pro and saying "you're such a hypocrite, you told me to play with putters only and you're throwing a driver".

All that said...thank GOODNESS we don't all teach people to do things the way we actually do them. I can't imagine teaching my kids to drive by telling them to use their knee to steer.

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  #29  
Old 06-16-2021, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by seedlings View Post
Because natural talent is natural. Simon has been playing disc golf longer than Hammes has been alive.

“You can’t coach that.”
Simon is a great teacher based on all his youtube videos I've seen. Many pro's are pretty meh though. Kudos to Simon.

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  #30  
Old 06-16-2021, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWoj View Post
I see the logic behind what autocross said... but I'm not sure I necessarily agree with it. What provides the best opportunity to become a great teacher is simply: an understanding that is thorough enough to break down a topic for a lay-person. I don't necessarily believe that starting out as a poor-performing adult or young adult provides a better opportunity for that level of understanding. It comes down to simply having a desire to possess that kind of comprehension. Simon or Eagle could have that level of comprehension, whether they choose to or whether that interests them is the key.

I came to disc golf late so I can't speak as someone who has watched discers from a young age.... but as a running coach I see a parallel there, in something I've experienced from the age of 8 onward: some of the best distance running coaches I know were runners from a very young age, and some of the most useless distance running coaches I know were runners from a very young age. What differentiates the two groups is the desire to study and learn the mechanics of form in one group versus the other.
Yeah, a strong understanding of both the how and why is absolutely integral to being a great teacher. The person that can recognize why their student isn't getting it and adjust accordingly can reach more people. And having to struggle to get it yourself puts you in a better position to be able to do that.
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