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Old 06-15-2021, 08:06 AM
robdeforge robdeforge is offline
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Default Is Nikko in or out?

hole 16 in this caddybook



(22:40 if the timestamp doesn't work)

https://www.instagram.com/p/CQG1aDgJ0MZ/
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  #2  
Old 06-15-2021, 08:24 AM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Caddy book link isn't working for me. How does it define the line? It is certainly poorly marked if nothing else.
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Old 06-15-2021, 08:58 AM
robdeforge robdeforge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
Caddy book link isn't working for me. How does it define the line? It is certainly poorly marked if nothing else.


and from the rules section earlier in the caddybook:
Quote:
16. MPO/FPO: Blue Tee-pad. Sand traps are played as 806.05 hazard. ALL ponds are O.B. Standard O.B.rules apply
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Old 06-15-2021, 09:02 AM
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Without better markings (say paint line around the sand traps), a disc barely touching a tuft of grass would mean it's not in the Hazard (sand trap).

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Old 06-15-2021, 09:18 AM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
Without better markings (say paint line around the sand traps), a disc barely touching a tuft of grass would mean it's not in the Hazard (sand trap).
I don't necessarily agree. If the tuft of grass is either A- surrounded by sand itself or B- bent over by the disc into the sand and the disc is (as it appears) surrounded by sand I would say it is in the hazard. (Of course players are never going to make that the call in an event.)

Either mark it better or clearly define the terms which define the hazard (imo either "surrounded by sand is in the hazard" or "touching grass is safe").

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Old 06-15-2021, 09:31 AM
Rastnav Rastnav is offline
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To me, from the picture, it looks like the disc pushed up against the grass border. That probably means that it's ever so slightly pushed into the grass that borders the trap. So it's not in the hazard (why do we keep talking about OB when we mean hazard?)

Of course, actually being right there would let us get a better look at whether the disc is pushing the grass forward from the root.

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Old 06-15-2021, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
I don't necessarily agree. If the tuft of grass is either A- surrounded by sand itself or B- bent over by the disc into the sand and the disc is (as it appears) surrounded by sand I would say it is in the hazard. (Of course players are never going to make that the call in an event.)

Either mark it better or clearly define the terms which define the hazard (imo either "surrounded by sand is in the hazard" or "touching grass is safe").
Agree that disc "officially" needs to be ON or touching the stalk of a tuft of grass that's connected with the sand trap boundary grass. And also agree the group likely to give benefit of the doubt to the player in a marginal situation like this one shown.

Declaring sand traps near pins as LOP Relief Areas (buncr rule needing waiver) versus Hazards seems a fairer penalty for the crime of landing in a trap so close to the pin. Makes it a little easier for the group to not feel as guilty penalizing the player with a stroke.

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Last edited by Cgkdisc; 06-15-2021 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 06-15-2021, 09:41 AM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
Agree that disc "officially" needs to be ON a tuft of grass that's connected with the sand trap boundary grass. And also agree the group likely to give benefit of the doubt to the player in a marginal situation like this one shown.

Declaring sand traps near pins as LOP Relief Areas (buncr rule needing waiver) versus Hazards seems a fairer penalty for the crime of landing in a trap so close to the pin.
Makes it a little easier for the group to not feel as guilty penalizing the player with a stroke.
Not sure i agree- at least the hazard penalty is consistent across the bunker. Looking at this particular bunker shape what you suggest could leave a disc that was the same distance from the pin as Nikko's with a lie that could differ by probably 20 feet based solely on the shape of the bunker behind the position of the disc.
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Old 06-15-2021, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
Not sure i agree- at least the hazard penalty is consistent across the bunker. Looking at this particular bunker shape what you suggest could leave a disc that was the same distance from the pin as Nikko's with a lie that could differ by probably 20 feet based solely on the shape of the bunker behind the position of the disc.
And your problem with that is? It's not a stroke but a variable distance penalty challenge over which the player has some control in terms of knowing which direction they should take on their approach in the event they end up in the trap. More interesting for the player and more interesting for the viewer.

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Old 06-15-2021, 09:49 AM
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His card ruled him inbounds so I guess he was.

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