#11  
Old 06-15-2021, 09:51 AM
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ChrisWoj ChrisWoj is offline
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Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
I don't necessarily agree. If the tuft of grass is either A- surrounded by sand itself or B- bent over by the disc into the sand and the disc is (as it appears) surrounded by sand I would say it is in the hazard. (Of course players are never going to make that the call in an event.)

Either mark it better or clearly define the terms which define the hazard (imo either "surrounded by sand is in the hazard" or "touching grass is safe").
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Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
Agree that disc "officially" needs to be ON or touching the stalk of a tuft of grass that's connected with the sand trap boundary grass. And also agree the group likely to give benefit of the doubt to the player in a marginal situation like this one shown.

Declaring sand traps near pins as LOP Relief Areas (buncr rule needing waiver) versus Hazards seems a fairer penalty for the crime of landing in a trap so close to the pin. Makes it a little easier for the group to not feel as guilty penalizing the player with a stroke.
Wouldn't this be a place for verticality to come into play?

I would interpret this particular situation as - the edge of the disc needs to be clearly overlapping the "base" of the grass that defines the edge of the sand trap to be considered inbounds. "Touching" any particular tuft of grass, connected to the inbounds area or not, would seem to be irrelevant to me.
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  #12  
Old 06-15-2021, 09:56 AM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Originally Posted by ChrisWoj View Post
Wouldn't this be a place for verticality to come into play?

I would interpret this particular situation as - the edge of the disc needs to be clearly overlapping the "base" of the grass that defines the edge of the sand trap to be considered inbounds. "Touching" any particular tuft of grass, connected to the inbounds area or not, would seem to be irrelevant to me.
Without better definition that is as valid as any other interpretation.

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  #13  
Old 06-15-2021, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
Of course players are never going to make that the call in an event.
As much as I appreciate Nikko's passion for the game and how animated he is, I think Mr. Biscoe's statement is particularly true in Nikko's case. A lot of players will argue their case and get a bit bent when the call doesn't go in their favor...

But given his long, well known history, I don't doubt that at least a few players are that much more hesitant to make such borderline calls on Nikko. Simply because his emotions can not only get the better of him, but the rest of the card.

That said, the whole card was looking at it, and Ricky seemed to be demonstrating with his disc what he thought would be in vs. out. I think the card made what they felt was the correct call, based on their interpretation of the rules.

Totally agree there should be a more definitive line defining the hazard, but you had experienced players making the best call they could at the time.

That's all that could be done, because there's no way to adequately describe that precise positioning of the disc, relative to the grass, for the TD to judge afterward.
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  #14  
Old 06-15-2021, 10:12 AM
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Astonished that they'd have a hazard (or OB) at a high level event, in a spot where it would frequently come into play, without a more definitive marking.

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  #15  
Old 06-15-2021, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
Astonished that they'd have a hazard (or OB) at a high level event, in a spot where it would frequently come into play, without a more definitive marking.
I didn't think that hosting an event on the same layout as worlds just before was a great idea, but maybe this being pointed out will lead them to fix this before worlds (with better markings)

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Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore View Post
That said, the whole card was looking at it, and Ricky seemed to be demonstrating with his disc what he thought would be in vs. out. I think the card made what they felt was the correct call, based on their interpretation of the rules.
the way ricky was laying the other disc made me think nikko's disc is inside the edge of the sand trap and is in the hazard, but those weird tufts of grass at the edge blurred the line a bit

also

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  #16  
Old 06-15-2021, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore View Post
But given his long, well known history, I don't doubt that at least a few players are that much more hesitant to make such borderline calls on Nikko. Simply because his emotions can not only get the better of him, but the rest of the card.
If I was playing for money against Nikko it would be incentive to call that a hazard penalty. You are adding 1 hazard stroke plus 5 rage strokes.
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  #17  
Old 06-15-2021, 10:52 AM
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also
Well- thank goodness I think he is "IN" (the hazard)- wouldn't want to have to suck "it".

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  #18  
Old 06-15-2021, 10:54 AM
txmxer txmxer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robdeforge View Post
I didn't think that hosting an event on the same layout as worlds just before was a great idea, but maybe this being pointed out will lead them to fix this before worlds (with better markings)



the way ricky was laying the other disc made me think nikko's disc is inside the edge of the sand trap and is in the hazard, but those weird tufts of grass at the edge blurred the line a bit

also
Nikko actually posted that? Lol.

Dude is wound way too tight.

It looked to be in the trap to me, but the points made are correct that is not a line and thus open to question.

And I agree that a penalty like that for landing that close to the pin sucks and does not make for better frolf

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  #19  
Old 06-15-2021, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robdeforge View Post
I didn't think that hosting an event on the same layout as worlds just before was a great idea, but maybe this being pointed out will lead them to fix this before worlds (with better markings)



the way ricky was laying the other disc made me think nikko's disc is inside the edge of the sand trap and is in the hazard, but those weird tufts of grass at the edge blurred the line a bit

also
I think a lot of tourneys do sort this stuff out with an AM weekend a week or two prior.

I also think Rick was making the correct argument but he and Nikko have had enough interactions he just let it go.

If this were a pond and he landed 3” beyond the edge of the water but a reed or few blades of grass were bent over from land and the disc were touching those blades it’s still OB right?

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  #20  
Old 06-15-2021, 01:09 PM
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So he stood in the hazard and threw without a penalty. Surprising that 806.05 isn't written with regard to where your stance will be.
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