#21  
Old 05-31-2019, 06:44 PM
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ThrowaEnvy ThrowaEnvy is offline
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I'm definitely conditioned for multiples of 9... we kept our original 9 tonal course and have added another 18 baskets to it. The front 9 is fairly reachable and exciting with elevation changes and a more old school " I could play it for par with a lid" feel.

Other than 3 shorter 200' holes in a row it varies enough with the baskets to keep it interesting. I think it's stuffed onto 10 acres. My place is 14 acres with 18 and definitely shorter feeling.. The kids like it more... the key to mine is 4 separate staring points all my nines are halved into 4 or 5 hole loops. It makes it easier to manage when there's 70 people up here we can still get done doubles in about three hours. It also gives me an option with friends or solo casual rounds to play until dinner, the ferry boat, or people show up. Or to jump in and out with house comittments...

I'm not sure where I'm rambling to, it makes the math easier in sets of nine but I do feel like 24 holes could be a decent round though I've never played one.
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  #22  
Old 05-31-2019, 06:45 PM
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I'm definitely conditioned for multiples of 9... we kept our original 9 tonal course and have added another 18 baskets to it. The front 9 is fairly reachable and exciting with elevation changes and a more old school " I could play it for par with a lid" feel.

Other than 3 shorter 200' holes in a row it varies enough with the baskets to keep it interesting. I think it's stuffed onto 10 acres. My place is 14 acres with 18 and definitely shorter feeling.. The kids like it more... the key to mine is 4 separate staring points all my nines are halved into 4 or 5 hole loops. It makes it easier to manage when there's 70 people up here we can still get done doubles in about three hours. It also gives me an option with friends or solo casual rounds to play until dinner, the ferry boat, or people show up. Or to jump in and out with house comittments...

I'm not sure where I'm rambling to, it makes the math easier in sets of nine but I do feel like 24 holes could be a decent round though I've never played one.
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  #23  
Old 05-31-2019, 07:48 PM
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Mando Mando is offline
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Originally Posted by InnocentCrook View Post
Challenge accepted.

You know, I still haven't decided exactly what I'll do with the other (currently undeveloped) half of Hidden Ridge. I know I'll be adding more disc golf, I just don't know if it will be 6 more holes, 9 more holes, or hell, even 18 more. Sometimes 27 feels like too many for the main course, but I know there's 9 really good holes in a chunk of that land (already roughly mapped), and that still leaves enough space for another 9 tiki/putter holes to the west.

Would a 27 hole course turn you away simply based on the number?

Looking at the faces of some of the golfers as they returned to their cars this past Monday after finishing their rounds at HR has me seriously considering a max of 24 in lieu of 27. Heck, there was 2 or 3 golfers on Monday who didn't even finish the 18 we currently have. But that would mean I'd be shaving off a few holes that I think have the potential to be pretty special.

Seems I'm still stuck on something that I've been pondering since even before we started carving out the course.
Take it from someone who has been there, and finally beat ITD after years of rehab, stop at 18. There is a little known addiction called the incessant tinkerer's disease and it sounds like you are vulnerable.

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  #24  
Old 05-31-2019, 11:23 PM
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sisyphus sisyphus is offline
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Originally Posted by InnocentCrook View Post
You know, I still haven't decided...
I've always had in the back of my mind the idea that a set of three 9 hole loops, each with a different difficulty level, would give you so much variety. Kids & families could enjoy the 9 shorties, all the way up to competitive players enjoying the medium and long 9's. Heck, eventually, two tees & two pin positions on all three 9's would be incredible, if the land availed itself to good holes overall.

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  #25  
Old 05-31-2019, 11:41 PM
Armus Patheticus Armus Patheticus is offline
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Quote:
It makes the math easier in sets of nine.
It does? Is simplifying already elementary mathematics a design priority?
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  #26  
Old 06-01-2019, 12:02 AM
Armus Patheticus Armus Patheticus is offline
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Originally Posted by Mando View Post
I don't follow this, please elaborate. How can a boring 18 be transformed into a fun 25 ???
It depends on who the course is designed for. Boring holes are often the ones that are out of reach for the majority of players, and which have the most predictable and non-rewarding outcomes. If 90% of error free rounds from the typical or target audience result in the same score, the hole can be shortened or otherwise adjusted to make it entertaining to the majority.

There are courses with many such duds, often because the designer was attempting to make a high-level course simply by designing beyond his personal playing level. The problem is that mediocre players sometimes have difficulty designing holes that are both challenging and fun for highly skilled players. So they build courses that are boring for the majority and either boring or baffling for the elite.

Imagination and observation are much more important than hole length, hole par, number of holes or any other such minutia.

Go into the land and fill it with fun, imaginitive, diverse holes until the land, the variety, or your strength is exhausted. Then you'll have a nice course.
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  #27  
Old 06-01-2019, 12:44 AM
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Countchunkula Countchunkula is offline
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Originally Posted by ru4por View Post
I agree with Bogey here. Though, being brought up in the game with most area courses playing as 24, 18 seems to leave me wanting.
I love Michigan golf (and I've played a decent amount of it), but 24 still seems a little weird to me. I guess it's just what we become accustomed to. Most of the courses in the Chicago area are 9 or 18 holes (except for the two Lombard courses for some reason). If you are going to go 18+ in one layout, I prefer the optional side loop method. That way the group can pick whether they want to do the full 24 (or more) or will be satisfied with 18.

Flip City and the Canyons are good examples of this type of course in your neck of the woods and mine respectively. Each started with 18 and later added optional loops of extra holes.

I perfer playing both of these courses in their entirety, but sometimes there are reasons to play just 18. Like if you are short on time, short on daylight, stuck behind a slow group, etc. I know a lot of people don't like "letter holes", but I'm a fan.

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  #28  
Old 06-01-2019, 12:59 AM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Originally Posted by Armus Patheticus View Post
It does? Is simplifying already elementary mathematics a design priority?
Always.
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  #29  
Old 06-01-2019, 07:41 AM
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DavidSauls DavidSauls is online now
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Originally Posted by Cgkdisc View Post
I've always thought that a property with room for 27 holes should be designed with an 18-hole blue/red tee layout and a 9-hole layout with two tees per hole with alternate tees labeled like an 18-hole course. Better marketing to claim two courses on your site rather than one whether you call it an 18 & 9 or stretch it a bit to call it two "18s".
Only if that sort of marketing is one of your primary goals.

Otherwise, it's just one more design constraint, all of which force compromises in quality. The magic number of 18, or the multiples of 9, is already one. Other suggestions (like 3 nine-hole loops) are others.

It's nice when the land accommodates, such that the compromise is very minor, and such features can be incorporated. But what the land offers, and the target audience for the course, matter more.

So perhaps instead of "should be designed", it's "can be a useful design".

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  #30  
Old 06-01-2019, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armus Patheticus View Post
It depends on who the course is designed for. Boring holes are often the ones that are out of reach for the majority of players, and which have the most predictable and non-rewarding outcomes. If 90% of error free rounds from the typical or target audience result in the same score, the hole can be shortened or otherwise adjusted to make it entertaining to the majority.

There are courses with many such duds, often because the designer was attempting to make a high-level course simply by designing beyond his personal playing level. The problem is that mediocre players sometimes have difficulty designing holes that are both challenging and fun for highly skilled players. So they build courses that are boring for the majority and either boring or baffling for the elite.

Imagination and observation are much more important than hole length, hole par, number of holes or any other such minutia.

Go into the land and fill it with fun, imaginitive, diverse holes until the land, the variety, or your strength is exhausted. Then you'll have a nice course.
Gotcha. So all you mediocre players, stay out of designing and let the pros handle it please.
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