#11  
Old 10-01-2019, 03:19 PM
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ChrisWoj ChrisWoj is offline
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Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
I'm not sure how you can add it in, but one factor I think of is uniqueness.

Is this hole significantly different, or very similar, to other holes (1) on this course, (2) that I play regularly, or (3) that I have played.

Subjectively, many of my favorite holes stand out because of their unique qualities.

Some of the worst, too, I guess.
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Originally Posted by BuzzzChief View Post
One thing that I don't see addressed is the "visual appeal" of a hole. I think in most cases, the signature hole at a course is one where there's a dramatic appearance of some kind. A big dropoff, a throw over water from a scenic viewpoint, a unique elevated basket, a rock formation or wood carving, something like that.

For example, DeLa #27 and BRP #4. There are plenty of "top of the world" and tunnel shots out there, but those two are consistently mentioned by people as "favorite" holes. It's because they look cool.
Good points both. I'll come up with a few prompts related to this and add them to the trial instrument. I agree - those are valuable parts of enjoyment of a hole.
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  #12  
Old 10-01-2019, 03:23 PM
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ChrisWoj ChrisWoj is offline
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Originally Posted by Steve West View Post
If I were forced to never again play one hole of my choosing for the rest of my life, I would gleefully pick BRP 444.

Yet, if I wanted to try to improve the enjoyability of the local disc golf scene by picking holes in the Twin Cities to be eliminated from existence, BRP 444 would be one of the last survivors.

Good luck resolving those ideas into one number.
Sounds like a reasonable task. If I include questions related to the uniqueness or visual elements of a hole, as requested - that should help. There are already elements associated with things that I would assume are a part of your enjoyment: appropriateness of fairway shape/width, obstacles, etc. Prompts associated with both visual elements and playability elements can both contribute to the overall construct.
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Old 10-01-2019, 03:26 PM
Smigles Smigles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWoj View Post

This URL takes you to the PDF shared via Google Drive:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/145U...ew?usp=sharing
Just a quick thought after reading trough your pdf document, you would profit on some questions from changing the answers.

Like the first question on page two: "The rough appropriately punishes errant shots on this hole." You could go from "not punishing enugh" to "just right" to "too punishing" instead of the "Agree/disagree" answers.

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  #14  
Old 10-01-2019, 03:41 PM
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ChrisWoj ChrisWoj is offline
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Originally Posted by Smigles View Post
Just a quick thought after reading trough your pdf document, you would profit on some questions from changing the answers.

Like the first question on page two: "The rough appropriately punishes errant shots on this hole." You could go from "not punishing enugh" to "just right" to "too punishing" instead of the "Agree/disagree" answers.
The problem with the set of answers is that for a survey to function as an instrument for measurement you want what is called 'monotonicity' with an ascending or descending nature to the scale. The inclusion of a middle category can often be bad, but I think you're okay with that one.

Another way I could do that may be the inclusion of a pair of prompts:
The rough on this hole punishes errant shots too much.
The rough on this hole does not punish errant shots enough.

I would plan on using the same set of scale options that I do on the rest of the questions.

Does this seem like a reasonable alternative?

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Old 10-01-2019, 04:56 PM
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chevis chevis is offline
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maybe a question involving risk/reward - easy(par) route vs. hard(birdie) route... but less questions, the more likely to be filled out
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  #16  
Old 10-01-2019, 09:19 PM
biscoe biscoe is online now
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This reminds me a bit of the pdga's (failed) attempt at developing a course rating system.

It also reminds me of Mark Twain's quote comparing analyzing humor to dissecting a frog...

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Old 10-01-2019, 10:19 PM
ToddL ToddL is offline
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I would reword one of the questions from:
"This hole does not make appropriate use of available obstacles"
to:
"This hole makes appropriate use of available obstacles"

All the other questions in the survey are written in a positive tense. This is the only one that's in a negative tense, forcing the reader to use a double negative to answer the question.

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  #18  
Old 10-02-2019, 12:01 PM
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ChrisWoj ChrisWoj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chevis View Post
maybe a question involving risk/reward - easy(par) route vs. hard(birdie) route... but less questions, the more likely to be filled out
Hmm.. have to think about wording.. "This hole provides appropriate risk for the reward of a birdie." (eagle as a possibility for longer courses?) As to the number of questions - one thing that will happen after this is trialed: questions that do not appear to contribute to the measurement of the construct will be removed.
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Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
This reminds me a bit of the pdga's (failed) attempt at developing a course rating system.

It also reminds me of Mark Twain's quote comparing analyzing humor to dissecting a frog...
The Mark Twain quote is strikingly close to a saying in measurement: The moment a measure becomes a goal, it ceases to be a good measure. (comes from a more technical "Law" by Goodhart regarding economics: Any observed statistical regularity will tend to collapse once pressure is placed upon it for control purposes.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddL View Post
I would reword one of the questions from:
"This hole does not make appropriate use of available obstacles"
to:
"This hole makes appropriate use of available obstacles"

All the other questions in the survey are written in a positive tense. This is the only one that's in a negative tense, forcing the reader to use a double negative to answer the question.
Thank you! I missed that and definitely appreciate you noting it.
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  #19  
Old 10-02-2019, 01:05 PM
IHearChains IHearChains is offline
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My opinions of a single hole are inextricably tied to the rest of the holes on the course.

I love BRP#4 but if I'm on an entire course that plays 18 holes exactly like BRP#4, I would say "this hole sucks".

Part of an epic signature hole is the anticipation that builds while working your way through the course to get to that hole, and that anticipation factor is going to depend on what the rest of the course is like.

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  #20  
Old 10-02-2019, 01:43 PM
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lowracks lowracks is offline
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Much to most of my tinder dates dismay, I always provide one the next day after I've had time to reflect.
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