#71  
Old 06-01-2018, 08:29 AM
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deadbody deadbody is offline
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Ok, so I don't know if that whole "Be more respectful of the folks who were doing this long ago" was directed in full or in part at me.

But I'm gonna try this one more time.

I'm saying this as a government agent. The type of person you have to convince to change things (the PDGA is gonna be running the same way so lets lump them in there as well)

Your petition is way to steeped in "The Svitko's are wrong and bad people" thats gonna fail on its face. First because your plan (that you need to be pushing at the exact same time) doesn't address replacing them, and second because the Svitko's are who the park board and PDGA have been working with, and they don't have a problem with them.

Put another way, they are friends. If a stranger came up to you and said "Your friend is bad, start being my friend" would you just accept it? What if lots of other people you don't know said it too? I thought not.

The petition idea is fine, but you need to have the action plan in there right away. The thing the PDGA and Park Board fear most of all is if they remove the Svitko's is there someone else to jump in right away.

You need to hash that all out.

Basically instead of dredging up the bad blood, its all factual stuff.

Svitko's took over in 2010 (or whenever I'm not invested enough to get details). In that time leagues have stopped being run (effect on income), course maintenance is no longer being properly done (evidence, photos etc) and a crown jewel course that should draw tourism dollars is not being used to its full potential. All these things also cause the proshop to make less than possible because, duh, people equal money ( wouldn't use the Duh in the write up, pro-tip)

THe solution to these problems is to at the end of the Svitko's lease allow RRDGC to resume control of the proshop and course. We have Bubba Joe Jack who was the original course designer ready to come in and get the courses back to the crown jewel status they were (redesign). We have Frankie Pancakes who spent 10 years in retail management with Waffles R Us ready to take over the pro shop to get it up to the standard set at other retailers (maximizing the revenue for the park board as I assume there is a revenue split). We have Steve Bookkeeper to make sure the books are all completely above board as the 501c3 that is running it is required (you better be a 501c3 it strengthens your case a whole huggy bunch).

We as the RRDGC will commit to running weekly leagues that will draw X amount of players each week, adding $$ to the bottom line for day and annual passes.


Now flesh that out a bit and maybe change the names, but those people for sure need to sign on the proposal so their name is on the contract. Will it change it? Not sure, but thats the best approach, not rehashing old stuff that from the outside (which is how the PDGA and Parks Board will look at it) sounds like sour grapes and nothing more.
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  #72  
Old 06-01-2018, 09:24 AM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Were I involved in a fiasco such as this my thought would be to have taxpayers (players) in the municipality contact their elected officials (not sure if Parks Board qualifies or not in this case- around here it would be County Board of Supervisors) - they are vested in what the voters think to a much greater degree than their underlings may be and perhaps there will be a sympathetic ear there. There still will be a need to show how the current management of the park is misusing the county's investment and how different management would improve that.

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  #73  
Old 06-01-2018, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
Were I involved in a fiasco such as this my thought would be to have taxpayers (players) in the municipality contact their elected officials (not sure if Parks Board qualifies or not in this case- around here it would be County Board of Supervisors) - they are vested in what the voters think to a much greater degree than their underlings may be and perhaps there will be a sympathetic ear there. There still will be a need to show how the current management of the park is misusing the county's investment and how different management would improve that.
This exactly, show how the Svitko's are failing to maximize the money the county can earn, and how you can do it better.

the past is the past.

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  #74  
Old 06-01-2018, 10:56 AM
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davetherocketguy davetherocketguy is offline
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Biscoe and deadbody are spot on.

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  #75  
Old 06-01-2018, 11:08 AM
Bart Bart is offline
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I will answer these questions entirely as time permits over this weekend...some of them are touched on in the petition post but I do agree clarification is needed...and I will provide....right now I have to take my 86 yr old mother downtown Chicago for lunch with some of her old friends....again thanks for the comments and just caring....Bart

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Old 06-01-2018, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart View Post
I will answer these questions entirely as time permits over this weekend...some of them are touched on in the petition post but I do agree clarification is needed...and I will provide....right now I have to take my 86 yr old mother downtown Chicago for lunch with some of her old friends....again thanks for the comments and just caring....Bart
Bart, shoot me a PM and I'll help you write it in private.

I'd like to see it succeed. But for it to have a chance it needs to be done better and clearer.

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  #77  
Old 06-01-2018, 03:22 PM
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I've heard both sides and there a lot of details missing in this thread. Both have made missteps and sometimes seem like they just like annoying the other. I wish their differences could be worked out. Some of the issues cited are due to decisions (and lack of decisions) made by the park owner. Lemon Lake would be much better if both Red Roc and the Svitko's could work together.

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  #78  
Old 06-01-2018, 07:51 PM
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I am curious . . . does the PDGA help pay for the rent on the property? Are there financial factors that the Svitkos are providing that your club could match? Don't get me wrong it sucks you lost your facility and all the hardwork that went into it but if you cannot produce the same things that the Svitkos are . . . why would the parks department work with you?
Why was it turned over in the first place? Who was responsible for maintenance at the park when you were in charge . . . or did the county simply not even know you were doing necessary work out there . . . meaning they don't see anything wrong with the maintenance the Svitkos are doing?

Jus some thoughts about all of this, I wont sign a petition until I know more but its a shame I haven't been down there to visit yet. Maybe Ill make it down soon to check it out.
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Old 06-01-2018, 11:07 PM
dehaas dehaas is offline
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So to me a couple things don’t add up, can’t say I’ve visited the complex...have wanted to but just never made the trip.

The current people maintaining the complex “don’t play” but the dude was a member of the original club?

Seems like their “in” was being able to step up and run the pro shop, which coincided with unemployment?

To a complete outsider that sounds like the pro shop was an idea just getting off the ground, and due to unfortunate circumstances they were able to commit to it when nobody else could?

Only seems logical the people who are the face of the revenue generating portion of the complex are the ones the park sides with. That’s not to say the volunteer work doesn’t mean anything, but it boils down to what value do you have to them?

This is an honest question, is the complex free, or pay to play? I’m sure both sides have made mistakes, but to squabble back and forth is eventually going to make the park come to the conclusion that it’s not worth the hassle...and EVERYBODY loses. As it stands right now they’re siding with who’s generating money, even if they’re not maximizing the opportunity. If you want change, convince them you can do better.

The good ole days are about over...if it’s not a source of revenue the parks don’t want a part. With more people playing there are more potential issues (injuries in public parks leading to liability, litter, etc). Gotta show you’re worth their time to mess with. The pitch used to be hey, 18 holes is cheaper than a playground. Unfortunately that’s not good enough anymore.
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  #80  
Old 06-02-2018, 12:02 AM
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LaserGlide68 LaserGlide68 is offline
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Just played Gold and White over Memorial Day weekend. Save for a bit of weed whacking needed around a few Gold tees, the Courses were in great shape. Save for the missing Tee signs, which are allegedly being replaced.
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