#2271  
Old 08-12-2019, 09:58 PM
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jdm0514 jdm0514 is offline
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I would say big z is comparable to luster imo.
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  #2272  
Old 08-12-2019, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFlickLuke View Post
ESP is more similar to Star than BigZ.
Not at all. ESP is firmer than most runs of Star. It is harder than any run of Star ESP I have seen. (Hardness and firmness are not synonyms, regardless of the common usage)
Also, lightly run your finger tips across both. The texture of the plastics are entirely different.

Discraft does not have a direct answer to Star. ESP is closer in feel to Millennium plastic than Star, but a bit tougher.

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Last edited by wolfmandragon; 08-12-2019 at 11:33 PM.
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  #2273  
Old 08-12-2019, 11:48 PM
BigFlickLuke BigFlickLuke is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFlickLuke View Post
ESP is more similar to Star than BigZ.
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Originally Posted by wolfmandragon View Post
Not at all.
If you had three discs, one in star, one in esp, and one in big Z, you could very easily see just how wrong you are.
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  #2274  
Old 08-12-2019, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFlickLuke View Post
If you had three discs, one in star, one in esp, and one in big Z, you could very easily see just how wrong you are.
Dude, I have all 3. I am a disc hoarder and somewhat of a super sensor. Read through my posts and you will see how much I complain about the smallest amounts of change made to a plastic blend.
The similararity between the Big Z and Star is why I do not bag a Big Z. I do not like the hand feel of either.
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Old 08-13-2019, 12:04 AM
BigFlickLuke BigFlickLuke is offline
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Originally Posted by wolfmandragon View Post
Dude, read through my posts
Lol, no.
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  #2276  
Old 08-13-2019, 12:13 AM
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MANBURGARLAR MANBURGARLAR is offline
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Older PFN ESP plastic was softer and discrafts version of “star” plastic for sure. However now you could argue the newer revamped swirly ESP is certainly stiffer and not as gummy as the older stuff / compared to star. The newer stuff is certainly more durable aswell.
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  #2277  
Old 08-13-2019, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfmandragon View Post
Not at all. ESP is firmer than most runs of Star. It is harder than any run of Star ESP I have seen. (Hardness and firmness are not synonyms, regardless of the common usage)
Also, lightly run your finger tips across both. The texture of the plastics are entirely different.

Discraft does not have a direct answer to Star. ESP is closer in feel to Millennium plastic than Star, but a bit tougher.
The KONGs i have is very close to a Swirl Star Leo3 i have. . but most new ESP has texture in the plastics that the "old ESP" did not have.

So i would say that the ESP blend in the KONGs is the closest to Star i feelt in a Discraft disc.

For me and my dry hands the Big-Z is quite slick. . i prefer the New ESP with the slight texture in it. . or the Ti, it has a bit more grip than Big-Z

The faster the disc, the less i like Big-Z. .
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  #2278  
Old 08-13-2019, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfmandragon View Post
The texture of the plastics are entirely different.
If I remember correctly, Discraft uses a polyvinyl compound as base for their plastics and Innova uses a polypropylene base. The difference is most readily apparent with Z/Champ plastic.

Big Z is between Ti and ESP. Star is between Champ and Pro. They aren't equivalent and can't really be since the plastic bases are different anyway. This is also a reason why "ZSP" blends are very sought after by a lot of Discraft fans.

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Last edited by VictorB; 08-13-2019 at 07:49 AM.
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  #2279  
Old 08-13-2019, 09:05 AM
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discerdoo discerdoo is offline
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I've personally always related ESP to star. Big Z feels like pearly champion to me.

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  #2280  
Old 08-13-2019, 09:17 AM
ChefKoolaid ChefKoolaid is offline
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Esp is closer to star
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