#621  
Old 02-25-2018, 01:09 AM
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I know this seems like a little thing, but during the back and forth swing, let your non-bracing foot slide towards and behind your brace foot: 0:47 seconds into the video https://youtu.be/R16IdsX6kdA

Do it both ways, and it will close your brace a touch more and keep things a little more inside the pendulum.
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  #622  
Old 02-25-2018, 03:08 AM
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I agree ^ with the feet needing to move in behind back and forth, and also need to setup more narrow so you can shift your center back and forth instead of being stuck in the middle/flat footed/wide stance.

Perpetually Longer Swing Drill: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu4CzVnITlo&t=5m56s

Frame 1 - Note how my stance is much more narrow and my front hip is stacked over front ankle and rear foot is weightless, while your stance is wide and both your feet are flat on ground and your front hip is behind the ankle.
Frame 2 - Note how my weight has shifted to the rear foot with rear hip stacked over rear ankle and front heel is de-weighted and front shoulder rotating back underneath on tilted spiral. Note how your front heel is still on ground and your front shoulder is folding back over top and disc is upside down/way off plane.
Frame 3/4 - Note how I'm completely centered on rear foot and my shoulder turns past rear foot. Note how your rear hip is forward of ankle.
Frame 5 - Note how my front hip is stacked over ankle and front shoulder is forward and rear heel is leading toes forward and chin leading nose forward. Note how your rear heel spun out backwards, front hip and shoulder behind ankle and nose leading chin over top.
Frame 6 - Note how I'm centered and stacked upright on front foot and rear heel up on toes. Note how your center of gravity/pelvis is behind the ankle with head folded over and over rotated/spun out. Look at how my navel/center of gravity/balance completely shifts from rear leg in frame 4 to front leg in frame 6. You are stuck in the middle between your feet and not really shifting back and forth.



Last edited by sidewinder22; 02-25-2018 at 03:13 AM.
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  #623  
Old 02-26-2018, 01:48 AM
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Thanks SW. Every time you do a post like this while I'm making progress I go through the seven stages of grief. I ran through it with a sledge, and can definitely feel why you need to be stacked going both ways. Like the Olymypic skater generating massive load under the hip before they explode. That's my new mantra while throwing, 'Load and Explode'.

I still suck, but slightly less in a few areas. I like how the reach back looks, and there's better connection throughout to the disc. I can see how the weight is stuck in limbo (I guess it's better than stuck on the rear side) and throws the brace off and over opening with it. This is a 396' Thunderbird in calm conditions. I hit a new personal best with a 435' throw with a metal flake Wraith today.

You might have this in the Hershyzer part 2, but I've been doing the door frame with the right toes on the wall, and it's a real nice way to feel the Hershyzer with the spine aligned correctly. I can just hang there until I'm aligned properly and let go to catch myself.


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  #624  
Old 02-26-2018, 02:38 AM
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Yeah shoulder looks better in backswing there, but you still turn back too early into the backswing before any of your weight is on the rear foot. You are turning back leaned back behind/outside your rear foot, instead of in front of it/back into/inside it. End up in splits / immoveable horsestance with both heels flat on ground and not getting upright on front leg.

I don't know how you can hang in the Door Frame with the front toes on the wall. If my front toes are on the wall in Door Frame I'm completely upright/relaxed with feet crossed/no hanging at all yet/no shoulder load. Foot needs to stride along behind with hip leading. If I'm hanging in the Door Frame I'm set up to Crush a 1" Can with front toes on ground in front of me ready to plant and brace the heel with sudden release 1" drop forward from door frame.
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Old 02-28-2018, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
I don't know how you can hang in the Door Frame with the front toes on the wall. If my front toes are on the wall in Door Frame I'm completely upright/relaxed with feet crossed/no hanging at all yet/no shoulder load. Foot needs to stride along behind with hip leading. If I'm hanging in the Door Frame I'm set up to Crush a 1" Can with front toes on ground in front of me ready to plant and brace the heel with sudden release 1" drop forward from door frame.
What I'm saying is it helps me get a feel for the Hershyzer (part 2 specifically) because you can hang there and work on aligning your spine/butt ready to fall right onto the floor. It helps me feel the Hershyzer, but obviously doesn't set you up with the foot fallowing under the hip. If I hold the spine alignment and weight hanging from the door frame, I can slowly stride your foot forward to a position to catch the weight, but I'll still be able to feel the load and alignment I'm trying to get from the Hershyzer/move.

I know something is starting to sink in as my distances on the course have gone way up. I'm consistently hitting 400' suddenly, and it hardly feels like I'm throwing. Four things I've been focusing on slow down my foot work so I don't let my weight get behind my back foot in the x-step (tipped backward look), rotating my shoulders inside my frame and timing it with the back foot getting weighted, focus on keeping my weight over my back foot/butt cheek as I'm loading during the backswing, and thinking of the tailbone coming down into the ground, the disc just explodes out. I'm having to adjust my aim slightly because the disc seems to come out a little earlier and I'm not having as many grip lock/over opening issues.

I'm hoping to have time to get video tomorrow.
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Old 03-01-2018, 11:20 AM
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It's raining today, so I wont be able to get to a field, but let me know if the lower spine alignment looks better here.

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Old 03-01-2018, 01:26 PM
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Nice, that's the best it's looked to me. Once the snow is off the ground I've got to figure that out too...

I imagine it's easier to stay closed/plant with a closed front foot and hip when you're balanced overtop of the rear foot in the X-step so your front leg doesn't have to catch any leftward drift? Not including the Lizotte style step motion.

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Old 03-01-2018, 01:38 PM
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Question for Sidewinder:

Billy seems to do what a lot of us are guilty of doing: That is, at least to me, it appears that he's too eager to swing; this might not be the case, it's just what the end result looks like.

Is this because Billy fails to "settle it" properly, best downswing weight shift? I think a lot of us don't really listen to you and Clement here, or we don't trust our bodies ability to completely catch ourselves closed (leading with our butt) at the top of the backswing and still be able to throw. We make the mental mistake of thinking we have to get our hips back around from this closed position and don't allow the settling to happen. We try to force the throw by opening our hips or gas pedaling incorrectly, instead of leveraging ourselves forward both via leveraging shoulder forward (like Slowplastic laid out in the Lizotte vs Mcbeth offarm thread) and rear leg forward underneath... but it must be done from that closed settled position - a true "from behind"/can crushed position. Does that sound right or no?

1:35 on:
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Old 03-01-2018, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
I imagine it's easier to stay closed/plant with a closed front foot and hip when you're balanced overtop of the rear foot in the X-step so your front leg doesn't have to catch any leftward drift? Not including the Lizotte style step motion.
SW would have to go into the mechanics of drifting, but keeping over the rear leg helps me with posture and load. It's easier me to swing back against my rear leg when I'm actually on my rear leg instead of the weight tilted in front of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deyo7 View Post
Question for Sidewinder:

Billy seems to do what a lot of us are guilty of doing: That is, at least to me, it appears that he's too eager to swing; this might not be the case, it's just what the end result looks like.

Is this because Billy fails to "settle it" properly, best downswing weight shift? I think a lot of us don't really listen to you and Clement here, or we don't trust our bodies ability to completely catch ourselves closed (leading with our butt) at the top of the backswing and still be able to throw. We make the mental mistake of thinking we have to get our hips back around from this closed position and don't allow the settling to happen. We try to force the throw by opening our hips or gas pedaling incorrectly, instead of leveraging ourselves forward both via leveraging shoulder forward (like Slowplastic laid out in the Lizotte vs Mcbeth offarm thread) and rear leg forward underneath... but it must be done from that closed settled position - a true "from behind"/can crushed position. Does that sound right or no?
I agree I'm not leveraging the rear hip forward well (late and not a lot of leverage), but you need to send the weight forward into the plant. You can see this in any pro where both heels are off the ground and the rear hip is active before the front heal hits the ground. You can see in Lizotte's throws he's got the knee turned inward before/as the front toes are coming down. He's sending the weight forward into a braced front side from behind him.
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  #630  
Old 03-01-2018, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deyo7 View Post
Question for Sidewinder:

Billy seems to do what a lot of us are guilty of doing: That is, at least to me, it appears that he's too eager to swing; this might not be the case, it's just what the end result looks like.

Is this because Billy fails to "settle it" properly, best downswing weight shift? I think a lot of us don't really listen to you and Clement here, or we don't trust our bodies ability to completely catch ourselves closed (leading with our butt) at the top of the backswing and still be able to throw. We make the mental mistake of thinking we have to get our hips back around from this closed position and don't allow the settling to happen. We try to force the throw by opening our hips or gas pedaling incorrectly, instead of leveraging ourselves forward both via leveraging shoulder forward (like Slowplastic laid out in the Lizotte vs Mcbeth offarm thread) and rear leg forward underneath... but it must be done from that closed settled position - a true "from behind"/can crushed position. Does that sound right or no?

1:35 on:
Pretty much. You can see BJ's hip and shoulder/head open early before the elbow begins to extend.

Watch how Doss's rear leg rotates back in the stride/Hogan Power Move/Buttwipe, so the femur angles more targetward and then the rear leg pivots/swivels weightless targetward right before crushing the can. If you watch BJ's rear leg there is zero rotation in the backswing or before the can crush and the rear foot is still weighted.

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Last edited by sidewinder22; 03-01-2018 at 04:08 PM.
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