#821  
Old 10-18-2019, 01:55 PM
gingerandhoney gingerandhoney is offline
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Originally Posted by Halcón View Post
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Cooper said that the latest findings left little doubt that testosterone was generally performance enhancing for female athletes.
Which AS WELL makes the inverse true.
Lack of testosterone is performance reducing
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  #822  
Old 10-18-2019, 02:09 PM
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Halcón Halcón is offline
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Originally Posted by gingerandhoney View Post
Which AS WELL makes the inverse true.
Lack of testosterone is performance reducing
Yes, but a trans women can hover at that 5nmol/l limit (or 10nmol/l in the IOC, PDGA) and not only enjoy the higher T level than most (or all) of her competitors, but also enjoy the other advantages that her (depleted) male body gives her.
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  #823  
Old 10-18-2019, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Halcón View Post
Yes, but a trans women can hover at that 5nmol/l limit (or 10nmol/l in the IOC, PDGA) and not only enjoy the higher T level than most (or all) of her competitors, but also enjoy the other advantages that her (depleted) male body gives her.
Four Myths About Testosterone

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Myth 1: T is the “master molecule of athleticism.” T’s effect on athletic performance isn’t always positive, as the IAAF’s own data on elite women athletes well demonstrates. Its initial analysis of data from two world championship competitions showed that women with higher T had significantly better performances in only five of 21 events.

Serious methodological problems with the IAAF paper prompted independent researchers to call for the paper's retraction, and the IAAF issued a correction. But the corrected version still undermines the regulation. In three of 11 running events, the lowest T group did better, and the strongest association across all events was the negative association between T and performance in the 100 meters, where lower T athletes ran 5.4 percent faster than the highest T athletes. In none of the events where high T athletes performed better was the gap greater than 2.9 percent.
- Scientific American
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  #824  
Old 10-18-2019, 04:06 PM
gingerandhoney gingerandhoney is offline
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Originally Posted by Halcón View Post
Yes, but a trans women can hover at that 5nmol/l limit (or 10nmol/l in the IOC, PDGA) and not only enjoy the higher T level than most (or all) of her competitors, but also enjoy the other advantages that her (depleted) male body gives her.
can in theory, yes. Practically, that is highly improbable.
Only, and I repeat that, only, if you come from the "well, they want competitive advantage over a weaker field" (in the people's minds who adhere to that line if thinking).
It does also directly go against the dearer (to transition) wish.
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Old 10-19-2019, 05:21 AM
Smigles Smigles is offline
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In grass roots level sports, it will definitely help transgender people be less ostracised, have at least one part in life where they are "allowed" to just be.
But it comes at potentially disenfranchising women.
Yeah lets throw all of womans (like 50% of the world population) sports under the bus so a few transgender (like 0.01%) people feel less ostracised.

To me a separate division for transgender people is still the only fair solution.



Also the other way around, btw. You hardly see born women who transitioned to men win any big titles. Maybe they would actually benefit from a separate division.
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  #826  
Old 10-19-2019, 06:06 AM
gingerandhoney gingerandhoney is offline
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Yeah lets throw all of womans (like 50% of the world population) sports under the bus so a few transgender (like 0.01%) people feel less ostracised.

To me a separate division for transgender people is still the only fair solution.



Also the other way around, btw. You hardly see born women who transitioned to men win any big titles. Maybe they would actually benefit from a separate division.
I am not throwing anyone anywhere.
I am stating what is happening.


As for the separate division, no, no, no and no.
It's both socially and legally (anti discrimination laws) not something you will want to pursue.
You (broader sense) are then forcing people who transitioned, but don't feel comfortable one way or another to out themselves (like I am, I am out & proud about being transgender, I took my life & the chance to finally be a happy bunny, in my own hands).


The clearest (yes, I'm going there) example of how wrong that is, is how during WWII, all sorts of "undesirables" were forced to wear identifying badges in the camps.
NB : the gay movement since then owning the upside down pink triangle out of respect for the fallen and resistance against it happening again, is a direct result thereof.

Now imagine a trigger-happy trans-hating AR15-owning person deciding to go mow down a bunch of transgender people who are conveniently stuck together in their own division. Like cattle in the slaughterhouse.

Need I remind you of the shooting in Orlando, June 12th 2016, inside Pulse, a gay nightclub, where 49 were killed and 53 injured?

No, no, no, no, and for good measure, no.
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  #827  
Old 10-19-2019, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by gingerandhoney View Post
Now imagine a trigger-happy trans-hating AR15-owning person deciding to go mow down a bunch of transgender people who are conveniently stuck together in their own division. Like cattle in the slaughterhouse.
Wow.
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  #828  
Old 10-19-2019, 06:40 AM
gingerandhoney gingerandhoney is offline
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...sgender_people
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  #829  
Old 10-19-2019, 06:43 AM
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https://www.cnn.com/2017/10/06/polit...nds/index.html
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  #830  
Old 10-19-2019, 06:44 AM
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It's like... Anyone could be violent...
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