#331  
Old 08-07-2019, 12:17 AM
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Nova P Nova P is offline
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Originally Posted by DiscFifty View Post
What is the proper term to differentiate between these two:

A) A male who identifies as a woman but has not made any medical, physical changes.
B) A male who has made the medical/physical transformation to a woman.

I don't see how B could ever be accused of transitioning just to gain an advantage over other women in sports.
To be precise, the proper term is the one the person asks for. However, in either of your two cases, if someone identifies as a woman, call them one.

Of course, only one of those two could be eligible to compete in a gender-protected division in the PDGA, per the most recent policy update.
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  #332  
Old 08-07-2019, 12:22 AM
DiscFifty DiscFifty is offline
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Originally Posted by Nova P View Post
To be precise, the proper term is the one the person asks for. However, in either of your two cases, if someone identifies as a woman, call them one.
I didn't make myself clear, sorry... so are both "transgenders" ? The "cisgender" term had me thinking if there was a term to differentiate between them. Thx.
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  #333  
Old 08-07-2019, 12:24 AM
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I didn't make myself clear, sorry... so are both "transgenders" ? The "cisgender" term had me thinking if there was a term to differentiate between them. Thx.
Both of the people in your example are transgender. Transgender is a broad term for people who identify as a gender that is not the same one as at the time of their birth.

edit: OH! I get your meaning now. As far as I know there's currently no quick and easy term to differentiate between those who have and who have not done any medical things related to being transgender. And also, it's considered tacky to ask someone the configuration of their genitals, the chemistry of their bloodstream, or their genetic karyotype unless you're their doctor or mom.


Last edited by Nova P; 08-07-2019 at 12:28 AM.
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  #334  
Old 08-07-2019, 05:18 AM
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wolfhaley wolfhaley is online now
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How am I being an ass? And where am I shouting red white and blue?
That's my bad Horsman. I meant to quote Sonic not you. I have no issues with you or your opinions. To the contrary actually. What I said was meant for Sonic. I'm terrible with computers.
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  #335  
Old 08-07-2019, 06:12 AM
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Anyhow...back on topic. So I feel that it hasn't been discussed much about the total opposite of this topic. A little bit, but going from identifying as a female to male. Is testosterone tested and how so by the PDGA and IOC? And what about banned substances in general like fertility drugs? There's lists of banned substances right. But one certain ingredient in any substance thats not listed on the label can trigger a positive test. I ask this because I've seen or heard about football players taking something that was banned, for fertility, and it wasn't on the NFL's list of banned substances. Now in a mixed gender sport I could see this becoming a whole can of worms so to speak. Honest question
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  #336  
Old 08-07-2019, 06:16 AM
racer93 racer93 is offline
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Originally Posted by Three Putt View Post
OK, this is a dumb question I admit but I'll ask. Would someone making a female to male transition run afowl of doping controls? They would be taking testosterone, wouldn't they? It would seem silly to not allow them to compete against men, but might they be caught in a technicality?
I would say they would be fine IF AND ONLY IF their free testosterone levels were within normal limits for a man. Where M->F transitions run afoul is that their T levels are well supraphysiologic levels for a woman. I'm simplifying things here greatly but it's a good 30,000' view.
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Old 08-07-2019, 06:23 AM
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And also your average joe can buy P90X without a doctors note. Anybody who has listened to sports radio in the last couple years is Painfully aware of this. Not doctor prescribed, but easily available. So it's ok for men to buy and ingest products frequently advertised on TV that "boost" testosterone? But a man transitioning to a woman taking estrogen is somehow so worse, doctor prescribed by the way. Not mel kiper selling it to me? So basically can a man have TOO much testosterone. Just curious?
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  #338  
Old 08-07-2019, 08:10 AM
Smigles Smigles is offline
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Originally Posted by wolfhaley View Post
Anyhow...back on topic. So I feel that it hasn't been discussed much about the total opposite of this topic. A little bit, but going from identifying as a female to male. Is testosterone tested and how so by the PDGA and IOC? And what about banned substances in general like fertility drugs? There's lists of banned substances right. But one certain ingredient in any substance thats not listed on the label can trigger a positive test. I ask this because I've seen or heard about football players taking something that was banned, for fertility, and it wasn't on the NFL's list of banned substances. Now in a mixed gender sport I could see this becoming a whole can of worms so to speak. Honest question
A woman transitioning to a man does not have the physical advantages of a man turning into a woman, so it shouldn't be much of a problem.

I dont know of ANY tests by the PDGA, so i dont know about any tests of testosterone either.
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  #339  
Old 08-07-2019, 08:26 AM
Jsmithey Jsmithey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscFifty View Post
What is the proper term to differentiate between these two:

A) A male who identifies as a woman but has not made any medical, physical changes.
B) A male who has made the medical/physical transformation to a woman.

I don't see how B could ever be accused of transitioning just to gain an advantage over other women in sports.
Some people use the term pre/post op transgender

i.e someone who hasnt had surgery would be a pre-op trans woman someone who has would be a post-op trans woman.
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  #340  
Old 08-07-2019, 08:34 AM
Jsmithey Jsmithey is offline
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Originally Posted by wolfhaley View Post
Anyhow...back on topic. So I feel that it hasn't been discussed much about the total opposite of this topic. A little bit, but going from identifying as a female to male. Is testosterone tested and how so by the PDGA and IOC? And what about banned substances in general like fertility drugs? There's lists of banned substances right. But one certain ingredient in any substance thats not listed on the label can trigger a positive test. I ask this because I've seen or heard about football players taking something that was banned, for fertility, and it wasn't on the NFL's list of banned substances. Now in a mixed gender sport I could see this becoming a whole can of worms so to speak. Honest question
If a trans man is above the 10nmol set by the ioc/pdga they would no longer be eligible for gender protected divisions and be required to participate in mixed division.
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