#121  
Old 03-03-2020, 04:55 PM
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Last edited by Cgkdisc; 03-03-2020 at 04:57 PM.
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  #122  
Old 03-03-2020, 05:04 PM
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Chuck, again, what you and others seem to want is the right to come on here and make unfounded and generalised accusations that are somehow okay because they are critical of religion...while those of us who are Christians are supposed to sit quietly on the sidelines and nod our heads slowly about how bad our faith really is.

If you want to criticize that person and call him an idiot, go ahead. But don't make generalized assumptions and say all christians are that way.

Christians people and beliefs come in all flavors and varieties.

In the great majority of Christian belief systems, nutrition is nowhere to be found.
It is not, of necessity connected to Christianity in any way.

I also want to add that refusal of medical treatment is absent from the great majority of Christian belief systems.
It is not, of necessity connected to Christianity in any way.


Last edited by DiscJunkie; 03-03-2020 at 05:07 PM.
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  #123  
Old 03-03-2020, 05:21 PM
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I haven't seen this much righteous indignation since a Mexican showed up at a Trump rally.

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  #124  
Old 03-03-2020, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by DiscJunkie View Post
However, bringing up some unrelated case of how you saved someone from religion is outside the bound of this discussion.
We didn't save anyone from religion. When things settled down we helped her look at some more mainstream churches and find a place for her to practice her faith because that was important to her and she needed to hang on to her faith. She's very happily practicing that faith in a healthier environment now.

What we saved her from was a psychotic wife beater an a "non-traditional" view that was turning out to be very harmful for her. It's the non-traditional view that turns out to be harmful thing that was my point; I think the vast majority of people in America are Christians and they know condoning wife beating and excommunicating a member who left her husband because she was being beaten isn't in any way a normal Christian view. So much so that I didn't think it needed to be explained.

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  #125  
Old 03-03-2020, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by DiscJunkie View Post
I want to remind everyone here that religion is a topic we are not supposed to bring up here on the forums.

If you want to talk about Ricky's religion and how it affected his decisions, you could make a case for that.

However, bringing up some unrelated case of how you saved someone from religion is outside the bound of this discussion.

Like Jimb said, these aforementioned beliefs are not common among all christian churches (they are actually very uncommon) and it is wrong to paint all Christians with the same tainted brush.
I'd like to say more, but again, religion is not the proper topic for these forums, except where it relates directly to the subject at hand, vis a vis, Ricky's poor decisions.
I think religion has been used here as an example of non scientific beliefs, interfering with scientific health care. I agree that we do not know if Wysocki's poor decisions are faith based, but I did use an example of where it was. It was not to denounce religion, but to emphasize that decision making is best made through use of data gathering and empirical evidence. Bad decisions, disregarding science and empirical evidence, are not any worse when done in the name of a deity, just equally as bad as when done in the name of anything else. If Wysocki is not reaching out for medical treatment of Lyme because of God, it is equally as idiotic as not reaching out because of some "nutritionist", is convincing him diet will cure the bacterial infection.

The inherent justification of, believe vs science, is a battle you will have to figure out for yourself. And, I agree not to be debated here.

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  #126  
Old 03-03-2020, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ru4por View Post
I think religion has been used here as an example of non scientific beliefs, interfering with scientific health care. I agree that we do not know if Wysocki's poor decisions are faith based, but I did use an example of where it was. It was not to denounce religion, but to emphasize that decision making is best made through use of data gathering and empirical evidence. Bad decisions, disregarding science and empirical evidence, are not any worse when done in the name of a deity, just equally as bad as when done in the name of anything else. If Wysocki is not reaching out for medical treatment of Lyme because of God, it is equally as idiotic as not reaching out because of some "nutritionist", is convincing him diet will cure the bacterial infection.

The inherent justification of, believe vs science, is a battle you will have to figure out for yourself. And, I agree not to be debated here.
This is my take on it. It's not specifically about religion but about science which is rejected by some religions, not just Christian. I have acquaintances who are anti-vaxxers with no religious affiliation as the basis for their views. Jews have their Kosher beliefs and vegans their beliefs on nutrition.

BTW, this IS the place for unfounded and generalized speculations. Sorry it's not okay when particular beliefs MIGHT BE involved. I've certainly suffered my share of unfounded critiques over the years. From what I've understood from last fall when Ricky was first concerned it might be Lyme's, he specifically mentioned religion in relation to avoiding western medicine counsel. I already retracted specifically implying its connection with home schooling.

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  #127  
Old 03-03-2020, 06:08 PM
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Has Ricky actually come out and said that he's refusing "mainstream" treatment for religious reasons or is this just a usual DGCR conclusion jump?

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  #128  
Old 03-03-2020, 06:36 PM
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Has Ricky actually come out and said that he's refusing "mainstream" treatment for religious reasons or is this just a usual DGCR conclusion jump?
In his interview with Terry Miller, he stated that to this point, he has not seen a doctor. I am not sure this can be categorized as refusal, but maybe rebuffed.
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  #129  
Old 03-03-2020, 11:07 PM
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I was able to have a brutal and frank discussion with her. I let her know that I thought deciding to abandon four children was the worst kind of atrocity I could think of, regardless of the deity she was leaning on. I was able to ultimately convince her to take blood, on her terms. I actually had to go back in on midnight shift, when no family or religious leadership was around. Gave her 4 units of blood before morning, with nobody being the wiser. I was a VERY hard decision for her. Convincing her to essentially turn her back on her faith was obviously a hard sell. She had surgery and was discharged. This kind of issue is fairly common in a hospital setting and not all have this kind of outcome. As a nurse, I strive for judgement free care and compassion, yet this was a time when I went against this.
You did not answer the question of whether or not all of her options were exhausted. What did the surgeon say to her? What choices did he give her so she could make a decision?
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  #130  
Old 03-04-2020, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by ru4por View Post
In his interview with Terry Miller, he stated that to this point, he has not seen a doctor. I am not sure this can be categorized as refusal, but maybe rebuffed.
If he hasn't seen a doctor, how does he even know he has Lyme?
Who actually made a lyme diagnoses?
Just curious

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