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View Poll Results: McBeth vs. Climo
McBeth 189 60.58%
Climo 123 39.42%
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  #401  
Old 08-14-2020, 09:59 PM
elmexdela elmexdela is online now
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Originally Posted by Ryan C View Post
There have been some interesting studies about how prime athletes decline. There is often an assumption that someone is "too old" to be a top player anymore, when the reality is usually something psychological. Basically, younger players tend to have less distractions in their lives and be "hungrier" to prove themselves.

Older athletes rarely maintain the single minded focus necessary to stay on top. Sad, but humans get bored of things and want to move on. If Paul's career ends up petering out disappointingly, it might be because he's too rich and too comfortable to keep pushing like he would need to. If that happens, no question Climo will have had the more impressive career.
link the studies
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  #402  
Old 08-15-2020, 06:30 AM
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Climo was the original Beast. He feasted on world championships.
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  #403  
Old 08-15-2020, 06:57 AM
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When Climo was collecting world championships, there was a certain cartoon character who got killed every week.

When Kenny was playing, he killed everyone else.

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  #404  
Old 08-15-2020, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by scooby snack View Post
When Climo was collecting world championships, there was a certain cartoon character who got killed every week.

When Kenny was playing, he killed everyone else.
Its so crazy to think that that was only a part of the show for about 25% of its episodes after being such a regular thing.... And will soon be an even smaller part as the show's archive grows.

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  #405  
Old 08-15-2020, 11:12 AM
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Them bastards!

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  #406  
Old 08-15-2020, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ChrisWoj View Post
Its so crazy to think that that was only a part of the show for about 25% of its episodes after being such a regular thing.... And will soon be an even smaller part as the show's archive grows.
That was fun to see how he was killed each episode, lol.
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  #407  
Old 08-15-2020, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Ryan C View Post
This makes no sense as a metric. It was relatively easy for Climo to be head and shoulders above his much weaker competition. Go back and watch some really early video of USDGC. The vast majority of those players look like my local advanced tournaments in terms of throwing consistency and putting. Climos legacy is that he was sort of the first serious player and there is a boatload of nostalgia that older players have for his era. Not that he wasn't a tremendous competitor and very good even by today's standard, but that's really all I can say.

I can absolutely agree that the extremely talented field of players that exists today may never have come to be if it weren't for Climo setting the example of what a serious disc golfer could look like. He definitely pushed everyone to become better. In other words, McBeth probably wouldn't be McBeth had Climo not been Climo.

But that doesn't mean that McBeth isn't a better golfer. If everything else was the same, except McBeth never won a single worlds, it would still be clear to me he would win 9 times out of 10 over the course of a 4 round tournament. If your only definition of GOAT is that they have more championships or a higher win percentage, then that is a GOAT I don't really care about, cause I just want to know who was more skilled. You can call Climo the GOAT, and I'll call that a totally irrelevant honor.
See you lose me with that one particular comment, and it seemingly devalues everything else in your argument. You're telling me that a guy who was 1040-something-rated deep into his 30s, we-don't-know-how-highly-rated while winning his first 9 WC's (because ratings hadn't been invented yet) in his 20s, is "not very good by today's standards." Dude, that's the horsehockey that a lot of the younger guys just believe. "There's all these players today who'd beat Climo regularly," is what I hear. Yet only about 4 or 5 of today's players even match or best his rating from his 30s, not his prime. Sorry man, that horsehockey, to me, costs the entire rest of your argument because you won't give Champ his due -- the due that he EARNED unbiasedly. I'll listen to fair and reasonable arguments ... but dude, you said Champ "wasn't very good." I mean knowing what we know now about ratings wouldn't it be EVEN HARDER to get a 1040 against "a bunch of weak, MA1 competitors" tht you guys seem to believe was the whole field? Think about what you'd have to do against a bunch of weak MA1 competitors to get to 1040 consistently. UNLESS, of course, that argument wasn't valid, either.

Last edited by araytx; 08-15-2020 at 02:10 PM.
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  #408  
Old 08-15-2020, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by scooby snack View Post
When Climo was collecting world championships, there was a certain cartoon character who got killed every week.

When Kenny was playing, he killed everyone else.
Back when Climo was winning most everything he entered, it was commonly said by others at the tournament...

"Guess we are all playing for 2nd place..."

So most of us were beat before the tourney started...

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  #409  
Old 08-15-2020, 03:46 PM
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2nd hand story, I was told this by Rick Rothstein many years ago.

One year the Worlds was 3-4 rounds in and Kenny had not broke onto the lead card yet, or the chase card. At the hotel Rick walked past Climo's room, the door was open so Rick stopped to say, "Hey Champ, WTF"? All he said was, "It's time for Climo golf". From that point he got to the lead card and of course the rest is history.
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  #410  
Old 08-15-2020, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by araytx View Post
... but dude, you said Champ "wasn't very good."
Re-read it . . . he used a double negative . . . he was saying the Champ was very good even by today's standards.

I'm a Kenny = GOAT guy, but the whole argument reminds me of the time when I asked my dad as a kid who's the better player -- Babe Ruth or Hank Aaron? Dad told me "Hank Aaron." I asked "why?" He said "because Babe Ruth is dead."
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