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View Poll Results: McBeth vs. Climo
McBeth 189 60.58%
Climo 123 39.42%
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  #411  
Old 08-15-2020, 06:18 PM
scooby snack scooby snack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innova63 View Post
Back when Climo was winning most everything he entered, it was commonly said by others at the tournament...

"Guess we are all playing for 2nd place..."

So most of us were beat before the tourney started...
Yeah, that’s pretty freakin’ dominant. I’ve heard that very thing from others who’ve been playing a long time, that when Kenny showed up at a tournament, 1st place was no longer up for grabs. smh in amazement.
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  #412  
Old 08-15-2020, 06:38 PM
araytx araytx is offline
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Originally Posted by thecandydan View Post
Re-read it . . . he used a double negative . . . he was saying the Champ was very good even by today's standards.

I'm a Kenny = GOAT guy, but the whole argument reminds me of the time when I asked my dad as a kid who's the better player -- Babe Ruth or Hank Aaron? Dad told me "Hank Aaron." I asked "why?" He said "because Babe Ruth is dead."
Understood. Competely. I accept all "eye test" arguments from people who say McBeth is the best of all time...as long as they also say Patrick Mahomes is the greatest quarterback. It's pretty much the same argument.

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  #413  
Old 08-15-2020, 09:54 PM
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dreadlock86 dreadlock86 is offline
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Originally Posted by araytx View Post
See you lose me with that one particular comment, and it seemingly devalues everything else in your argument.
for me it's this one
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Originally Posted by Ryan C View Post
If everything else was the same, except McBeth never won a single worlds, it would still be clear to me he would win 9 times out of 10 over the course of a 4 round tournament.
so, in a fictitious world Paul never wins worlds but wins 90% of all 4 round tournaments. in this fictitious world are there 9 tournaments other than worlds that are 4 rounds? because right now there are 2, USDGC and BSF. how long has it been since there were more than a handful of 4 round events per year?
or does he mean prime Paul would beat prime Climo 90% of the time over 4 rounds because that's equally laughable.


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Originally Posted by araytx View Post
I mean knowing what we know now about ratings wouldn't it be EVEN HARDER to get a 1040 against "a bunch of weak, MA1 competitors" tht you guys seem to believe was the whole field? Think about what you'd have to do against a bunch of weak MA1 competitors to get to 1040 consistently.
plus the fact that there was no money in the game. stick McBeth in the 90's and he doesn't even play disc golf. if you want to compare prime Climo to prime McBeth, you have to insert Climo into the modern era. and then you have to factor for Kenny with better equipment on tougher courses but with the same killer instinct and love for the game and competition.

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  #414  
Old 08-15-2020, 10:06 PM
elmexdela elmexdela is offline
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idk i kinda like them both
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  #415  
Old 08-16-2020, 12:11 AM
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Having competed against both, I can honestly say they are both significantly better than me.

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  #416  
Old 08-16-2020, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Hampstead View Post
Having competed against both, I can honestly say they are both significantly better than me.
Humblebrag of the year right here. 👍
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  #417  
Old 08-16-2020, 08:14 PM
araytx araytx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan C View Post
This makes no sense as a metric. It was relatively easy for Climo to be head and shoulders above his much weaker competition. Go back and watch some really early video of USDGC. The vast majority of those players look like my local advanced tournaments in terms of throwing consistency and putting. Climos legacy is that he was sort of the first serious player and there is a boatload of nostalgia that older players have for his era. Not that he wasn't a tremendous competitor and very good even by today's standard, but that's really all I can say.
...
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Originally Posted by thecandydan View Post
Re-read it . . . he used a double negative . . . he was saying the Champ was very good even by today's standards.
Also, that’s “technically true,” now as I re-read it...BUT the context was pretty clear.

He called in-their-primes Ron Russell, Dave Feldberg, Avery Jenkins, Steve Rico, Steve Brinster, Markus Kallstrom, Jesper Lundmark, JohnE McCray, Josh Anthon, Barry Schultz, Matty O., Schwebby, Cam Todd, Kevin McCoy, Scott Stokely, Rick Voakes, Mike Mosher, Mike Randolph, Crazy, Brad Hammock, etc..., and a couple young guns named Nate Doss and Cale Leiviska , [quote] “...his local MA1 players...” that Champ was playing against.



Quote:
Originally Posted by aphilso1 View Post
I actually oversimplified, because winning multiple titles is exponentially more difficult, not algebraically more difficult. It's not my fault that most disc golfers have killed most of their brain cells via their other recreational hobbies.

To state the matter more simply though, a good measure of "greatness" is in how likely it was for the feat to be accomplished. Given the # of disc golfers competing at the time, the odds of a player starting from scratch and winning 12 titles in Climo's era was 1 in 4.6e46. The odds of a player starting from scratch and winning 5 titles in McBeth's era is 1 in 2.4e24. The tipping point depends on how many disc golfers are competing in the future when/if McBeth wins more titles, but 9 for McBeth vs 12 for Climo would make the numbers pretty close.

So in summary, if McBeth gets to 10 then he's the GOAT; if he finishes with 8 or less then it's still Climo. If McBeth ends with 9 then this thread is going to last forever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Innova63 View Post
Back when Climo was winning most everything he entered, it was commonly said by others at the tournament...

"Guess we are all playing for 2nd place..."

So most of us were beat before the tourney started...
Another factoid for people to remember:

Champ won three Worlds in his 30s. Paul hasn’t had that chance yet.
Champ won all 5 of his USDGC’s in his 30s. Paul still has that in front of him.
And Champ shot an 1100-rated round at age 40!

Doesn’t all-time include ALL?

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