#11  
Old 08-20-2020, 08:44 PM
ThrowaEnvy's Avatar
ThrowaEnvy ThrowaEnvy is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pender Is. B.C.
Years Playing: 15.1
Courses Played: 5
Posts: 3,026
Niced 1,331 Times in 883 Posts
Default

I believe Gyro is real! And almost to a point where too many of their discs have that straight stable kind of flight. If it's an overmold it has a certain straight flight. Whether that makes it better or not is up to the thrower.

I find their light discs are freaking magical, though in theory they would be the least gyro.. Less weight means less weight in the rim... but they are really true to flight even in such a light weight.

The putters are a good example, you really need to get em up to speed to work right.. They're long! Don't do short quite as well though, less glidey. Need to spin it to win it!

If it's a placebo I swallowed that sucker and I'm cured of single mold desires. Except the Comet...
Sponsored Links


Last edited by ThrowaEnvy; 08-20-2020 at 08:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-20-2020, 09:55 PM
BogeyNoMore's Avatar
BogeyNoMore BogeyNoMore is offline
* Ace No More *
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Walled Lake, MI
Years Playing: 16.4
Courses Played: 331
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 11,405
Niced 4,645 Times in 2,031 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThrowaEnvy View Post
I find their light discs are freaking magical, though in theory they would be the least gyro.. Less weight means less weight in the rim... but they are really true to flight even in such a light weight.
Thought I heard that for given mold, all the rims are the same weight, and that the cores are what determined the final disc's weight.

If so, then their lighter discs would have more gyro effect than their heavier discs, because more of the mass is in the rim, less in the core.

Maybe someone can confirm that, or perhaps it's in the thread Tbird linked.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-20-2020, 10:59 PM
ThrowaEnvy's Avatar
ThrowaEnvy ThrowaEnvy is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pender Is. B.C.
Years Playing: 15.1
Courses Played: 5
Posts: 3,026
Niced 1,331 Times in 883 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore View Post
Thought I heard that for given mold, all the rims are the same weight, and that the cores are what determined the final disc's weight.

If so, then their lighter discs would have more gyro effect than their heavier discs, because more of the mass is in the rim, less in the core.

Maybe someone can confirm that, or perhaps it's in the thread Tbird linked.
The way I remember it the different flight plates were the same weight and the extra was in the rim.. But that a different flight plate was used for different weight ranges (2 plates.. 1 for 150 and 1 for 170 classes).

Though now that you mention it some of the lighter stuff does seem more stable, I feel like the Ohm for example is straighter or has a straighter path in a heavy weight (except for the weight part of course)

Last edited by ThrowaEnvy; 08-20-2020 at 11:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-21-2020, 10:55 AM
BogeyNoMore's Avatar
BogeyNoMore BogeyNoMore is offline
* Ace No More *
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Walled Lake, MI
Years Playing: 16.4
Courses Played: 331
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 11,405
Niced 4,645 Times in 2,031 Posts
Default

Gyro: works best with tzatziki sauce.

Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-21-2020, 11:06 AM
tbonesocrul tbonesocrul is offline
Par Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Courses Played: 118
Posts: 137
Niced 68 Times in 40 Posts
Default

From my experience as a mech. engineer at my company, we would certainly celebrate a 5% change in many of our targeted design variables. To people who look at the 5% change in MoI and say that it is "just a gimmick" or "not enough" to make a difference, at what point would you say it matters?

Lets use disc mass as an example. Would you bag multiples of the same mold in different weights?
A 5% decrease in mass from a disc at 175g is a little over 8g making this lighter disc about 167g. Assuming all solo-mold discs are constant density these lighter discs should also have a 5% reduction in MoI making them turn & fade more.

I've heard a few common explanations for why people enjoy throwing lightweight discs, they are easier to flip, you can throw them at a higher speed, and just less stress on the body overall. I totally understand the "easier to flip" portion just looking at the MoI. I'm more skeptical that you get a 1:1 improvement in disc speed because I think a lot of the energy/effort put into a throw also has to go into accelerating your arm and rotating your trunk to some degree. Not all of the energy/effort goes into the disc.

If gyro is a gimmick, is disc weight a gimmick as well?
At what % does it no longer become a gimmick and becomes a noticeable difference you might seek out.

I am also not trying to advocate that Gyro is the best in all scenarios, just that it has a measurable difference of similar magnitude to other factors that people care about and don't seem to doubt or question.

Maybe the greatest contribution from Gyro is that you can choose lightweight discs to get the benefits of less stress and possibly some disc speed improvement without sacrificing as much stability in the disc.

Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-21-2020, 11:15 AM
Countchunkula's Avatar
Countchunkula Countchunkula is offline
Double Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Chicago Burbs
Years Playing: 14.3
Courses Played: 171
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 1,389
Niced 352 Times in 168 Posts
Default

I'm with Bogey.



My wife (who's half greek) orders hers plain. smh

Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-21-2020, 11:28 AM
Ryan C Ryan C is offline
Birdie Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Courses Played: 1
Posts: 265
Niced 85 Times in 50 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbonesocrul View Post
From my experience as a mech. engineer at my company, we would certainly celebrate a 5% change in many of our targeted design variables. To people who look at the 5% change in MoI and say that it is "just a gimmick" or "not enough" to make a difference, at what point would you say it matters?

Lets use disc mass as an example. Would you bag multiples of the same mold in different weights?
A 5% decrease in mass from a disc at 175g is a little over 8g making this lighter disc about 167g. Assuming all solo-mold discs are constant density these lighter discs should also have a 5% reduction in MoI making them turn & fade more.

I've heard a few common explanations for why people enjoy throwing lightweight discs, they are easier to flip, you can throw them at a higher speed, and just less stress on the body overall. I totally understand the "easier to flip" portion just looking at the MoI. I'm more skeptical that you get a 1:1 improvement in disc speed because I think a lot of the energy/effort put into a throw also has to go into accelerating your arm and rotating your trunk to some degree. Not all of the energy/effort goes into the disc.

If gyro is a gimmick, is disc weight a gimmick as well?
At what % does it no longer become a gimmick and becomes a noticeable difference you might seek out.
I agree with your main point, but that isn't quite what's going on with MVP. If we could say "this Gyro disc flies 5% farther," I agree that would be huge. But we can't. If we could say "it flies 5% straighter," then that would be huge. But we can't. MVP just moved around 5% of the mass of the disc closer to the edge, and unfortunately we can't actually demonstrate that is making any practical difference in the final result of the throw.

Individual throwers are also too unique to really quantify this stuff. I know that Streamline is now making one of the MVP molds in a "single mold" configuration, so without the Gyro. If someone really wanted to know, they could try each version and see if it made a practical difference for them. My guess is that it would not. The variation from one throw to the next is going to be greater than the variation gained by moving a small percent of the disc's mass closer to the rim.

And I say this as someone who has thrown quite a few MVP/Axiom discs and really enjoyed them.

Oh, and for those who were talking about it. We found when we tore them apart that the extra weight is in the rim, and MVP only makes 2 weights for the flight plates. I don't remember the cutoff, but somewhere between like 165g and 180g the flight plates are all the same. So it would actually be the heavier discs that are slightly more gyroscopic.

Niced: (2)

Last edited by Ryan C; 08-21-2020 at 11:33 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-21-2020, 12:09 PM
ThrowaEnvy's Avatar
ThrowaEnvy ThrowaEnvy is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pender Is. B.C.
Years Playing: 15.1
Courses Played: 5
Posts: 3,026
Niced 1,331 Times in 883 Posts
Default

I believe the dual gyro/ single mold is the Ohm and Pilot though personally I wonder about the drift and relay.. I haven't thrown a pilot or a drift.

Marm-O-Set has thrown both, big pilot fan and he was super excited for the Ohm.. He felt the Ohm glided better with a touch more stability I think.. Ask him.

Last edited by ThrowaEnvy; 08-21-2020 at 12:13 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-21-2020, 12:13 PM
zenbot's Avatar
zenbot zenbot is offline
*Super Moderator*
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ventura, California
Years Playing: 14.3
Courses Played: 32
Posts: 11,263
Niced 538 Times in 193 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanJon View Post
See the issue is that you're just not putting enough spin on it.
Release the GYRO™!

Niced: (1)
Reply With Quote
 

  #20  
Old 08-21-2020, 01:11 PM
BogeyNoMore's Avatar
BogeyNoMore BogeyNoMore is offline
* Ace No More *
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Walled Lake, MI
Years Playing: 16.4
Courses Played: 331
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 11,405
Niced 4,645 Times in 2,031 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbonesocrul View Post
From my experience as a mech. engineer at my company, we would certainly celebrate a 5% change in many of our targeted design variables. To people who look at the 5% change in MoI and say that it is "just a gimmick" or "not enough" to make a difference, at what point would you say it matters?

Lets use disc mass as an example. Would you bag multiples of the same mold in different weights?
A 5% decrease in mass from a disc at 175g is a little over 8g making this lighter disc about 167g. Assuming all solo-mold discs are constant density these lighter discs should also have a 5% reduction in MoI making them turn & fade more.

I've heard a few common explanations for why people enjoy throwing lightweight discs, they are easier to flip, you can throw them at a higher speed, and just less stress on the body overall. I totally understand the "easier to flip" portion just looking at the MoI. I'm more skeptical that you get a 1:1 improvement in disc speed because I think a lot of the energy/effort put into a throw also has to go into accelerating your arm and rotating your trunk to some degree. Not all of the energy/effort goes into the disc.

If gyro is a gimmick, is disc weight a gimmick as well?
At what % does it no longer become a gimmick and becomes a noticeable difference you might seek out.

I am also not trying to advocate that Gyro is the best in all scenarios, just that it has a measurable difference of similar magnitude to other factors that people care about and don't seem to doubt or question.

Maybe the greatest contribution from Gyro is that you can choose lightweight discs to get the benefits of less stress and possibly some disc speed improvement without sacrificing as much stability in the disc.
Most players will acknowledge a 5 gram difference in disc mass makes a noticeable difference.

5g rounds to 3% when you consider disc weights of 150 (3.33%) to 170 (2.94%) grams.

So a 5% change in a variable can make a pretty noticeable difference. But not all factors necessarily work the same way.

Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Considering a Gyro Bag PeterMonk Bag Suggestions & Feedback 5 08-23-2019 05:29 AM
Gyro Bag bradharris Bag Suggestions & Feedback 13 03-24-2016 12:11 AM
Gimmick Holes TOURNEYPLAYER Disc Golf Courses 69 07-29-2011 12:23 AM
Most Useful Gimmick kcplease Discs 24 08-17-2010 04:06 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.