#21  
Old 08-21-2020, 02:19 PM
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GripEnemy GripEnemy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmandiscer View Post
It's not forcing the disc into under and over stability. Just neutral.



/drift
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  #22  
Old 08-21-2020, 02:43 PM
ToddL ToddL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan C View Post
Oh, and for those who were talking about it. We found when we tore them apart that the extra weight is in the rim, and MVP only makes 2 weights for the flight plates. I don't remember the cutoff, but somewhere between like 165g and 180g the flight plates are all the same. So it would actually be the heavier discs that are slightly more gyroscopic.
"More gyroscopic than..." is a phrase that's been thrown around a few times in this thread without enough specificity.

Same flight plate, heavier rim is more gyroscopically stable than same flight plate and lighter rim.

Same rim, heavier flight plate is more gyroscopically stable than same ram, lighter flight plate.

I think the important question that no one is touching is: Is a 155g MVP driver more gyroscopically stable than a 155g single-mold driver of similar profile? That's the important one, isn't it? If you like throwing lighter discs, then your calculations should be made between multiple discs of the same weight, not between multiple weights of the same disc.
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  #23  
Old 08-21-2020, 03:09 PM
Ryan C Ryan C is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddL View Post
"More gyroscopic than..." is a phrase that's been thrown around a few times in this thread without enough specificity.

Same flight plate, heavier rim is more gyroscopically stable than same flight plate and lighter rim.

Same rim, heavier flight plate is more gyroscopically stable than same ram, lighter flight plate.

I think the important question that no one is touching is: Is a 155g MVP driver more gyroscopically stable than a 155g single-mold driver of similar profile? That's the important one, isn't it? If you like throwing lighter discs, then your calculations should be made between multiple discs of the same weight, not between multiple weights of the same disc.
Well, I am a highschool physics teacher. When I say "more gyroscopic" I'd call that clear enough. To be more specific I could say that it "conserves its angular momentum" better than another object. The math behind this stuff isn't that complex.

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Last edited by Ryan C; 08-21-2020 at 03:12 PM.
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  #24  
Old 08-21-2020, 04:02 PM
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I only bag two mvp molds. The Envy and Volt. Which i feel are both just absolutely incredible discs. I don't believe for a second gyro has anything to do with it. They just happen to be great molds. I throw mostly FH approach shots and before i bagged the envy i was using a beat D Zone. I have an electron envy that just shapes the prettiest lines imaginable. And as for the Volt i truly feel it is the faster teebird we've always wanted. I play heavily wooded courses and the volt is incredible at hitting tight gaps and still getting sneaky distance for a slower driver.

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  #25  
Old 08-21-2020, 04:48 PM
tbonesocrul tbonesocrul is offline
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Originally Posted by Ryan C View Post
I agree with your main point, but that isn't quite what's going on with MVP. If we could say "this Gyro disc flies 5% farther," I agree that would be huge. But we can't. If we could say "it flies 5% straighter," then that would be huge. But we can't. MVP just moved around 5% of the mass of the disc closer to the edge, and unfortunately we can't actually demonstrate that is making any practical difference in the final result of the throw.

Individual throwers are also too unique to really quantify this stuff. I know that Streamline is now making one of the MVP molds in a "single mold" configuration, so without the Gyro. If someone really wanted to know, they could try each version and see if it made a practical difference for them. My guess is that it would not. The variation from one throw to the next is going to be greater than the variation gained by moving a small percent of the disc's mass closer to the rim.
Yeah, I was arguing more against people dismissing gyro just because "5% is small". When you consider the realities of throwing a disc, even if a disc has a higher MoI, it will still take more torque to accelerate it to an equivalent RPM.


Maybe the best way to describe my opinion on gyro is:
At the practical level where I decide what discs make it in my bag I don't worry about the gyro effects because my inconsistencies outweigh the small differences. When I think about the physics of flight at the theoretical level it is hard to dismiss it because I know there is some difference, and when I'm hungry gyro always sounds good.
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  #26  
Old 08-21-2020, 04:56 PM
tbonesocrul tbonesocrul is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore View Post
But not all factors necessarily work the same way.
Agreed. Just using disc weight as an example of a metric where people definitely do care about changes of less than 5%

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  #27  
Old 08-21-2020, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emoney View Post
I feel mvp discs do fly straighter and stay locked on a line.
That could be due to most of the 10 speed and under mvp/axiom molds having no dome(from my experience).

Either way...i have a karate chop forehand. With a Force i get that anny flex forehand to fight out pretty easy.

With every OS Mvp/Axiom driver i have tried (for anny flex karate chop forehand) they hold the anny too long before flexing out. Out of the almost 10 molds i tried, this was consistent for me.

I only use 3 molds from them after trying to make a full Gyro bag a while ago. Envy, Volt, Mayhem
Give the phase a whirl. Its ability to fight out of a karate chop anny is right between a flick and a machete for me.

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  #28  
Old 08-21-2020, 06:11 PM
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aphilso1 aphilso1 is offline
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I've owned and bagged quite a few gyro molds -- Wave, Vanish, Photon, Defy, Tesla (yuck), Virus (double yuck), Envy, and Proxy. Might be more that I'm just not thinking of. Currently I still bag two of those (Vanish and Proxy). There are three molds that to me do seem distinctly different than any traditional one-piece discs:

Wave - this mold is ridiculously straight for a high speed (11-12ish) driver. Very little turn or fade on a clean 330'-375' throw. More power than that though and it gets squirrelly.

Envy - fantastic amount of HSS for a putter. Can be thrown into a decent headwind and still hold the line. Can be torqued forehand and still hold the line. Healthy amount of fade, but not nearly as much as you'd expect given the 0 turn.

Proxy - this one is in my bag currently. It is the straightest disc I've ever thrown from a flat release -- 0 turn and darn near 0 fade. Can hold its own in a headwind, but not as much as the Envy.


The Wave might be an anomaly -- just a disc that flies straight for people at a very specific arm speed/throwing style combo. But Proxies and Envies are a different story, and are clearly two data points in favor of gyro magic. I've seen too many people that can't throw putters be able to throw those dead straight. Maybe the gyro effect is just strongest in slower molds? I think most gyro-throwers would agree that driving putters are the strength of the MVP/Axiom product line.

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  #29  
Old 08-24-2020, 12:33 PM
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Doofenshmirtz Doofenshmirtz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan C View Post
Well, I am a highschool physics teacher. When I say "more gyroscopic" I'd call that clear enough.
So, you are THE authority on what "more like a gyroscope" means? BTW, do you need a degree in physics to be a physics teacher?
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  #30  
Old 08-24-2020, 01:10 PM
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There is only ONE steel edge frisbee of consequence:





/endthread

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