#161  
Old 09-14-2020, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Karl View Post
As the scuba diver at Maple Hill, I can assure you that that 'second pond' has water in it every bit as wet, murky, and leech-filled as the primary (for hole 8) pond.
Seeing as you are more in the loop than anyone else on this forum, was McBeth in the right? If I was another player and the TD reversed a call that HE made, I would be furious.
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  #162  
Old 09-14-2020, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by the_lung View Post
What was the cash line? Who got paid and who didn’t? Were the ties broken correctly? There was no awards ceremony so what if I left after my round was over, and I’m wondering if I got paid, and how much?

Payouts are uploaded promptly after every single other PDGA Major and National Tour event, as well as every other DGPT event. So why does the MVP Open fail?
I guess I am operating under the assumption that, like all tournaments, this was already decided, posted and completed. Posting to the PDGA website is simply public documentation. Maybe I am wrong.
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  #163  
Old 09-14-2020, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
"If tee shot lands OB in the water, proceed to DZ1 shooting 3. "- seems pretty cut and dried to me... or is the second pond full of whipped cream or Bevel beer? (which is not to say that the rule shouldn't be written better)
There is an OB line short of the pond where his disc landed. So its like missing a mando and then your disc also lands in an OB. You take the penalty which happened first.

Now why is the course rule written that way, is another discussion. Maybe Dodge doesn't like island greens?

I would imagine there will be a new rule next year that any disc that lands in any OB will proceed to the drop zone.
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  #164  
Old 09-14-2020, 09:31 AM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Originally Posted by brutalbrutus View Post
There is an OB line short of the pond where his disc landed. So its like missing a mando and then your disc also lands in an OB. You take the penalty which happened first.
I don't think so. It's not like missing a mando in that missing a mando involves the flight path of the shot rather than the outcome. The only relation the flight path has to an OB disc is in determining the lie if you are using traditional OB rules rather than having something else explicitly stated. IMO something else was explicitly stated.

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Originally Posted by brutalbrutus View Post
Now why is the course rule written that way, is another discussion. Maybe Dodge doesn't like island greens?

I would imagine there will be a new rule next year that any disc that lands in any OB will proceed to the drop zone.
IMO the likely intent was for the next shot in this case to be played as traditional OB. Also IMO the verbiage which clearly describes a result from being OB "on land" and a different one from "in water" does not match the intent and the verbiage is all anyone has to go by.

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Old 09-14-2020, 09:51 AM
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I'm guessing when Dodge wrote the OB rule for hole 8 he didn't foresee shots going into a different pond when he wrote “in the water”.
At the time it happened he ruled that way, but afterwards he decided that traditional OB rules should apply since McBeth's throw had flown in-bounds for a good length so he reversed his decision.
In my opinion he ruled correctly when he reversed his first ruling.

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Old 09-14-2020, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by biscoe View Post
I don't think so. It's not like missing a mando in that missing a mando involves the flight path of the shot rather than the outcome. The only relation the flight path has to an OB disc is in determining the lie if you are using traditional OB rules rather than having something else explicitly stated. IMO something else was explicitly stated.



IMO the likely intent was for the next shot in this case to be played as traditional OB. Also IMO the verbiage which clearly describes a result from being OB "on land" and a different one from "in water" does not match the intent and the verbiage is all anyone has to go by.
I think the issue is the coloring in the caddy book.
So anything past the OB land line is tinted red and defined as "OB Area" as opposed to blue which is defined as "OB Water". This includes the long pond, which is tinted red.
The caddy book for hole 8 just says "over the string line" is OB. I can see how it would be weird to have a section of OB within a different section of OB and have it play different. Especially because that long pond isn't mentioned, so technically he is both "over the string line" AND "in the water". Which they didn't account for.

Edit, it does say "If OB on land, traditional OB rules apply" whoops. Still they don't define that pond as water funnily enough.
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  #167  
Old 09-14-2020, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by ru4por View Post
I might guess most don't care about seeing their names on the PDGA tournament page. You know where you finished and got paid out....why would they care what anyone else made??
Your disdain for (watching, being a fan, etc) all things pro disc golf fogs your thought process a bit. Spectators / fans enjoy seeing how much money their favorite players make per event, especially in non team sports.
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Old 09-14-2020, 11:52 AM
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I would agree with the corrected ruling on #8.

From what I could see on the replay, it seems like Fish brought the issue to the table. Was he helping PMc to avoid a penalty? Meaning that Paul was set to play his original throw, but as the rule was initially interpreted he would have been penalized--by calling out the written rule, Paul was saved from the potential penalty.

On the round 1 deal with GG--I agree that he got screwed on that. I was really enjoying watching him play--I felt he showed a lot of skill beside just being a big bomb thrower.

Back to McBeth--watching him play and when rules issues come up for other players, he seems to be fairly front and center discussing OB or whatever the question is. We aren't there and don't hear all of the discussion, but it seems to me that he tends to favor the player in assessing situations which seems very sportsmanlike. I could be wrong--just my impression.

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  #169  
Old 09-14-2020, 12:15 PM
Ryan C Ryan C is offline
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Originally Posted by txmxer View Post
Back to McBeth--watching him play and when rules issues come up for other players, he seems to be fairly front and center discussing OB or whatever the question is. We aren't there and don't hear all of the discussion, but it seems to me that he tends to favor the player in assessing situations which seems very sportsmanlike. I could be wrong--just my impression.
I agree. Paul is a veteran, and I've seen him correctly argue the rules a bunch of times live. I've even seen him correctly give the benefit of the doubt to a player in a tight race situation, where it was not to his advantage. I have never seen anything to indicate he isn't a really good sportsman in these situations.

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  #170  
Old 09-14-2020, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by DiscFifty View Post
Your disdain for (watching, being a fan, etc) all things pro disc golf fogs your thought process a bit. Spectators / fans enjoy seeing how much money their favorite players make per event, especially in non team sports.
Your high level psychoanalysis aside. I will tend to side with the TD, who has a merciless job, with endless tasks, over your piqued curiosity.

While I don't really understand the level of fanboy, that requires you to need to know who made how much money, I appreciate your enthusiasm for it. But, I fail to see why you can't hold out for a few days, while far more important tournament tasks are attended to.

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