#11  
Old 05-19-2019, 08:14 AM
d11rok d11rok is offline
Par Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Years Playing: 3
Courses Played: 64
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 169
Niced 73 Times in 40 Posts
Default

Those who say "not informing the TD in any case is grounds for an 888, since the TD doesn't know if it's an emergency or not"- if it's a true emergency, I for one would not waste time trying to find a TD or official.

There should be some impetus on the TD to follow up with the player if able to determine why they left post-hoc. Although I imagine the amount if true emergencies is far less than the ol' walk off, this should still be kept in mind.
Sponsored Links
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-19-2019, 01:41 PM
Cgkdisc's Avatar
Cgkdisc Cgkdisc is offline
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Twin Cities
Years Playing: 30.2
Courses Played: 672
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 11,995
Niced 1,300 Times in 603 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by d11rok View Post
Those who say "not informing the TD in any case is grounds for an 888, since the TD doesn't know if it's an emergency or not"- if it's a true emergency, I for one would not waste time trying to find a TD or official.

There should be some impetus on the TD to follow up with the player if able to determine why they left post-hoc. Although I imagine the amount if true emergencies is far less than the ol' walk off, this should still be kept in mind.
Unless the TD let the player play the round alone, then there will be other players in the group who can inform the TD why the player left.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-20-2019, 09:25 AM
d11rok d11rok is offline
Par Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Years Playing: 3
Courses Played: 64
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 169
Niced 73 Times in 40 Posts
Default

Indeed, there will be cardmates who may or may not remember to inform the TD, nor should it be their duty (only good favor) to do so.

My point was to suggest that there may be another side to the story in a minority of cases, and players should not be assumed to have left for malfeasant reasons.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-20-2019, 12:06 PM
araytx araytx is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: DFW
Years Playing: 12.9
Courses Played: 202
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 2,126
Niced 223 Times in 140 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by d11rok View Post
Indeed, there will be cardmates who may or may not remember to inform the TD, nor should it be their duty (only good favor) to do so.

My point was to suggest that there may be another side to the story in a minority of cases, and players should not be assumed to have left for malfeasant reasons.
From a TD perspective, I am not "assuming" anything. I simply think the 888 is for leaving without informing the TD" of why. Has nothing to do with whether I think the reasons are "malfeasant" or not. It's kinda like not showing up in court to defend yourself. Now if the player wants to contact ME post -tourney to explain reasons, that is something I'd hear. But it's not incumbent upon me to contact them. You need to submit or inform of a reason to get 999; otherwise you get 888.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-21-2019, 04:38 PM
aredoubles aredoubles is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Years Playing: 3
Courses Played: 94
Posts: 38
Niced 41 Times in 15 Posts
Default

Related incident that happened to me at a B-tier this past weekend:

Cardmate informs us at the beginning of the round that he'll have to leave early, due to a prior commitment he'd made months earlier. But he plans on coming back tomorrow to play the remaining rounds. I'm not sure if he'd informed the TD about this beforehand. He's totally fine with getting a par + 4 on every hole he misses, he's playing mostly for fun, and isn't too concerned about his finish or his rating.

Halfway through the round, he's actually playing well and leading the card, but the clock strikes, and he has to leave. We finish the round without him.

Upon turning in our scorecard, someone checking the cards (but not the TD himself, who's elsewhere on the course) tells us to put down par + 4 for every hole this person missed. So they end up quadruple-bogeying half of the round, haha.

The next day, he arrives as promised, sees his place on the bottom card, puts up no fuss, and finishes the tournament.

He did get all of his round scores entered preliminarily into the PDGA site. A few days later now, I see that his left-early round score has now been changed to a 999 DNF, but he still has valid scores for the rounds that came afterwards.

Was this handled appropriately? I wish the TD had been more directly communicated with during this process, but otherwise, what could've been done differently?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 05-21-2019, 04:45 PM
tonyroberts's Avatar
tonyroberts tonyroberts is offline
Par Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Minnesota
Years Playing: 6.8
Courses Played: 86
Throwing Style: LHBH
Posts: 235
Niced 64 Times in 29 Posts
Default

You really can't remain in the competition if you fail to complete the course.

See the Misplay Rule 811.F.3:

Failure to Complete a Hole. The player has finished the round or thrown on a hole without having completed a previous hole. The score for the misplayed hole is the number of throws made, plus one for completing the hole, plus two penalty throws for the misplay. Intentionally failing to complete a hole constitutes withdrawal from competition. (Emphasis mine.)

Last edited by tonyroberts; 05-21-2019 at 04:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 05-21-2019, 04:46 PM
IHearChains IHearChains is offline
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Years Playing: 15.1
Courses Played: 162
Posts: 608
Niced 145 Times in 67 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by d11rok View Post
if it's a true emergency, I for one would not waste time trying to find a TD or official.
The corollary to this is, if it's a true emergency, I for one don't give a rats azz whether its 888 or 999.

Niced: (2)
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 05-21-2019, 06:20 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Years Playing: 21.5
Courses Played: 145
Throwing Style: LHBH
Posts: 7,355
Niced 3,013 Times in 1,260 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aredoubles View Post
Related incident that happened to me at a B-tier this past weekend:

Cardmate informs us at the beginning of the round that he'll have to leave early, due to a prior commitment he'd made months earlier. But he plans on coming back tomorrow to play the remaining rounds. I'm not sure if he'd informed the TD about this beforehand. He's totally fine with getting a par + 4 on every hole he misses, he's playing mostly for fun, and isn't too concerned about his finish or his rating.

Halfway through the round, he's actually playing well and leading the card, but the clock strikes, and he has to leave. We finish the round without him.

Upon turning in our scorecard, someone checking the cards (but not the TD himself, who's elsewhere on the course) tells us to put down par + 4 for every hole this person missed. So they end up quadruple-bogeying half of the round, haha.

The next day, he arrives as promised, sees his place on the bottom card, puts up no fuss, and finishes the tournament.

He did get all of his round scores entered preliminarily into the PDGA site. A few days later now, I see that his left-early round score has now been changed to a 999 DNF, but he still has valid scores for the rounds that came afterwards.

Was this handled appropriately? I wish the TD had been more directly communicated with during this process, but otherwise, what could've been done differently?
That should not have been a 999, IMO. The score with his par+4 holes was the appropriate way to handle it since, if the TD allowed the player to return, those holes were "omitted holes" (per 811.F.6) not a withdrawal. 999 (and 888) denote withdrawal from competition, not an incomplete round. I'm curious if the TD made the change on his own or the PDGA was involved in the decision, especially considering the score was recorded appropriately initially.

That said, I think the misplay rule for omitted holes is being mis-applied to allow for these types of scenarios (with RC and PDGA BOD consent). To me, if you fail to finish a round, you should be considered withdrawn from competition and not allowed back to play subsequent rounds. That's the way it used to be.

The change and the omitted hole rule was implemented to handle emergency situations where the player had to leave the course for a time but returned before the end of the round. It was prompted by an incident at USDGC in which a player was called away to deal with an emergency with his child, who was in the care of tournament provided daycare. He left his group for 4-5 holes then once his child was okay, he returned to finish the round. Such a situation seems a fair reason for such a rule. Extending it to cover non-emergency departures kinda rubs me the wrong way.

Niced: (2)
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05-28-2019, 07:09 PM
paulw paulw is offline
Eagle Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Years Playing: 19.1
Courses Played: 130
Posts: 526
Niced 85 Times in 36 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JC17393 View Post
...To me, if you fail to finish a round, you should be considered withdrawn from competition and not allowed back to play subsequent rounds. ...
If you can't leave early, why can you arrive late?

It's never made any sense to me why a player can arrive late and finish (for any reason) but can't leave early . . . ?

What's the difference?

Just do it the same for both instances -- personally I think both instances should be DQ'd -- but it's not overly important to me.
Reply With Quote
 

  #20  
Old 06-03-2019, 02:39 PM
araytx araytx is offline
* Ace Member *
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: DFW
Years Playing: 12.9
Courses Played: 202
Throwing Style: RHBH
Posts: 2,126
Niced 223 Times in 140 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulw View Post
If you can't leave early, why can you arrive late?

It's never made any sense to me why a player can arrive late and finish (for any reason) but can't leave early . . . ?

What's the difference?

Just do it the same for both instances -- personally I think both instances should be DQ'd -- but it's not overly important to me.
Harder to DQ for arriving late, at least for the first round. The player could then argue he never entered and was just coming to get his refund.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How often do you 888, DNF rounds in league play? zrxchris Tournaments & Leagues 64 09-27-2014 01:22 AM
888 Dan Ensor General Disc Golf Chat 18 10-24-2013 05:07 PM
To 888 or not to 888....... CaptainAnhyzer General Disc Golf Chat 94 08-21-2013 03:00 PM
888 HATE! jenb General Disc Golf Chat 29 08-12-2013 12:57 PM
Dave242 999 thumbs down optidiscic General Disc Golf Chat 46 04-29-2010 08:38 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.