#11  
Old 06-29-2015, 02:29 AM
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sjberry2017 sjberry2017 is offline
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I bag a max weight Champ TL and a 171 gram S FD, and I also have a 170/171 C FD (can't remember the weight off the top of my head) and a 169 Star TL; I can get the SFD out to around 300 to 310 feet, to give you an idea of my power level.

For me, the Champ TL is my workable overstable fairway. It will stay pretty straight but fade decently hard at the end. I can get that characteristic disc width worth of turn out of it on a great rip, but overall it's a pretty dependable, workably overstable driver. It isn't as understable as a C FD; if I throw that, it will hold the anny line and eventually fade out to land flat, whereas the TL will get some late flex at the end and fight out of the anny line. The SFD is my go-to fairway driver, and truth be told, I don't really need to bag the Insanity with this disc (although the Insanity is just an insanely fun disc to throw). I usually use this for hyzer flips and higher anny turnover shots. It still has some stability at the end of the flight, but it has noticeable more turn than my C FD or the TL. To me, the Champ TL and S FD make a great pair that can cover nearly all the fairway lines you could need. My Star TL is pretty touchy, so I don't bag it anymore. I really need to get back to throwing it, because I think that was mostly form issues on my part. It started out as a pretty stable disc, and my noodle arm back then could get it out to probably around 225 to 250 feet.


That being said, here are my thoughts on everything the OP wanted to compare:
stability
Really depends on the plastic, following the general rule of thumb that Champion plastic is more overstable than Star. However, in the same plastic at the same weight, the TL is more overstable than the FD, but they both tend more towards some variant of the word neutral.

glide
At my power level, the TL can be pretty dumpy at the end of the flight, unless I get a really good throw. The FD in either plastic is an absolute glide machine on the other hand

aiming accuracy
This is usually a case of archer, not the arrow. Both of these discs go where you throw them, so if you release early or over-rotate, the disc is going to follow the direction you gave it.

ability to BH and FH
I don't really throw FH, but both discs are great for BH and can handle all sorts of angles.

ability to gauge distance
The TL is a bit easier to range because of the fade. The FD can go for days, which makes it a bit more tricky of a proposition to get the right amount of power on it for the required shot.

speed
They both throw like they're a speed 7 disc; if you know what you're doing, they will get up to speed and do their thing. If you're a newb, they'll be overstable.

how they handle head/tail/crosswinds
I didn't start trying to learn to play the wind until recently, so I don't really have any thoughts of any value on this right now.

ability to follow all degrees of hyzer, anhyzer, straight lines
As I said above, they'll follow different lines. The TL is a bit more stable, so it likes to fight out of an anny line, while the FD will typically follow whatever line you give it. The FD will sometimes flip up out of a hyzer line, but if you play it right, can hit some fun lines. The TL will hold a hyzer line, but it really isn't stable enough to throw some of the tighter hyzer lines. They'll both follow a straight line pretty well.
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  #12  
Old 06-29-2015, 06:36 AM
JTdisc JTdisc is offline
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I've found a champion TL to be more overstable than a C-Line FD, which is slightly understable. The TL goes pretty straight with a stronger fade where the TL has some turn and a gentler fade. My S-Line FD has more turn and light fade. The FD will get more glide and go a bit further, where the TL will want to fade out a bit sooner.

In general I prefer the S-line FD and pair it with a champion Teebird. I don't feel like I need much in between those two discs.

In the cold winter months, I've been switching off to a G* TL3, but I really need to do more side by side throws with the other discs to compare.
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  #13  
Old 06-29-2015, 10:41 AM
tu-f-o tu-f-o is offline
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yeah TL3 seems legit, no one ever sells it. is the TL3 in between a TL and FD?
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  #14  
Old 06-29-2015, 10:59 AM
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grotto grotto is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tu-f-o View Post
Is the TL3 in between a TL and FD?
To me it fits right between a new champion TL and an S-FD. Those are the only ones I've owned to compare with. I plan to try a C-FD when I come across one, but as of now I have a glut of fairways so it's not high on the priority list.

The TL3 to me is a perfect workhorse point and shoot fairway that seems to get little love.
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Old 06-29-2015, 06:41 PM
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thatdirtykid thatdirtykid is offline
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I can compare C-FD (not 2nd run) and S-FD to Star and Pro TL's at 400' fairway D.

All Tl-s I have thrown have less HSS
The star TL has as much or more fade than a C-FD, but beats out of them quickly.
The TL is a better roller.
The TL hyzerflips more naturally into a turn. My SFD is good, but my memory of the TL especially in pro is better.
The FD finishes very straight very consistently. I can aim at the basket with a C FD and trust its finishing in line with the basket.
The TL seems faster, and has great glide, but the FD surprisingly goes further than you expect.
The CFD will consistantly hold a sweeping hyzer, the TL will be more prone to flip up to flat, fly straight and fade.
The CFD will surprise you how much power you can put on it with just a touch of hyzer.
My Sig tells you which I find more valuable. If I were pairing with a teebird especially.

Last edited by thatdirtykid; 06-29-2015 at 06:44 PM.
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  #16  
Old 06-29-2015, 08:00 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is online now
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@thatdirtykid

I found Champ TL's could handle a hard flat release and get a nice gradual turn, and a mild fade back to middle-ish (I use fairways for ~350', so less power than you). It would be a nice holding anhyzer disc/have enough turn to do some woodsy stuff when less stable than a Teebird is wanted. Where does the C-FD rank for turnovers? Can you flip them from flat and get a trustworthy left to right bank out of them, or are they too straight? For reference I find SFD (beat) to be a bit touchy.
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Old 06-29-2015, 08:56 PM
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TAFL TAFL is online now
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I recently picked up a G-Line FD and a Star TL as part of my auditioning process to find a replacement for the Eclipse. I've not thrown them in all conditions and haven't tried every imaginable line with them, so you're getting early impressions, here, not opinion from long use.

stability The flight characteristic ratings seem to be accurate. I can count on the TL holding a straight line and fading a bit at the end. I can put the FD out flat to get a bit of a turn or hyzer flip it for a straight flight, each with a slight fade. The TL holds hyzer lines much better; the FD seems to turn wider with the same angle of release.

glide The TL glides much the same as the Teebird. The FD has more glide.

aiming accuracy They both hold the lines I put them on solidly. I've not been surprised by either one of them turning or dumping unexpectedly.

ability to BH and FH I'm just developing a forehand, so lack the disc fu to make comment on this.

ability to gauge distance I've not had either come up short unexpectedly nor carry long unexpectedly.

speed They both handle as their rating indicates.

how they handle head/tail/crosswinds The TL doesn't carry as far in tailwinds (expected) and will fade harder in a tailwind (also expected). It's stable into a headwind, though in a stiff headwind, I've only thrown low, flat shots, so I've no idea what it will do with more air under it in a headwind. Cross winds haven't seemed to affect it much, either, though, again, I tend to throw low and flat in anything other than light winds.

The FD has been a bit finicky in headwinds. It has turned quite a bit on some throws while not turning any extra on others--I suspect it's user error/inconsistency behind this. It does seem to get more lift from headwinds and crosswinds than the FD (and Eclipse), which is likely due to its glide ability. It flies reasonably well in tailwinds, carrying farther for me than the TL (though a bit less than the Eclipse).

ability to follow all degrees of hyzer, anhyzer, straight lines I've not tried to put the FL on any serious turning lines (anhyzer), throwing it only on straight lines and hyzers. It's been steady on those. I've been able to put the FD on gentle turns and have it reliably come out; have yet to make any tight anhyzer throws with it. It holds the straight lines well and feels a bit loose on hyzer lines, going a little deeper than I expected it to.
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Old 07-01-2015, 05:47 PM
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thatdirtykid thatdirtykid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
@thatdirtykid

I found Champ TL's could handle a hard flat release and get a nice gradual turn, and a mild fade back to middle-ish (I use fairways for ~350', so less power than you). It would be a nice holding anhyzer disc/have enough turn to do some woodsy stuff when less stable than a Teebird is wanted. Where does the C-FD rank for turnovers? Can you flip them from flat and get a trustworthy left to right bank out of them, or are they too straight? For reference I find SFD (beat) to be a bit touchy.
I have very minimal experience with champ tl's. Thats why I specified pro/star tls.

I throw 3rd run C FDs. If I throw them with any hyzer they flip up to flat and track right gradually but only slightly. They usually finish just right or in line with the release. If I power them down (I am comfortable throwing an FD pretty slow) they still flip up, but do not get any turn. Once broken in, or maybe a lighter one (mine are all 172-174 would turn more. I also imagine they would turn more if I were not playing at about 5000'.
It sounds like a C FD may be what you are looking for. I would avoid the current runs (5th) because they are supposed to be closer to the 2nd runs in flight (but still not as stable)
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Old 07-01-2015, 07:19 PM
slowplastic slowplastic is online now
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Thanks for that reply. I like my turnover discs to be pretty mild, something I can power into a turn but won't burn on me, rather than something that is super flippy...like a straight/stable disc that has a -0.5/-1 HSS rather than an actual flippy disc. This sounds about perfect when my River disappears...that thing is too touchy a lot of the time.
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  #20  
Old 07-01-2015, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
This sounds about perfect when my River disappears...that thing is too touchy a lot of the time.
I ditched the River for the FD and have never looked back. The River was waaaay too nose angle sensitive and really difficult to range. It would usually glide past my target and when I would power it down, it became unpredictable.

The FD has tons of glide but is way easier to range accurately and is much more forgiving of nose angle inconsistencies. It's one of the best, most underrated fairways out there imo.
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