#21  
Old 01-07-2020, 01:01 AM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teemkey View Post
I think you guys need something like:
"The lie does not exist until either the in bounds thrown disc is declared as the marker or a mini-marker is placed according the the rules."
Perhaps.

It would say "The lie does not exist until the disc is released". Or maybe more accurately, "You can't get a lie-related penalty unless you throw the disc".

It's already all there, but the rules could be more explicit about it.


Quote:
802.05 Lie
The lie is the place on the playing surface upon which the player takes a stance in order to throw.

In all other cases, the lie is a rectangle that is 20cm wide and 30cm deep, centered on the line of play behind the rear edge of the marker disc.

802.07 Stance
If the lie has been marked by a marker disc, then when the disc is released, the player must:
[Bold added]


To be clear, there is NO disc golf equivalent to bolf's "addressing the ball".
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  #22  
Old 01-07-2020, 01:43 AM
cheesethin cheesethin is offline
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While I mull on my answers to your questions I want to ask a clarifying question...

If the marker defines the lie, and if no marker is used at all, does the lie exist?

Player picks up their thrown disc, and throws it without placing anything as a marker. What's the call?

If we call a marking violation only, doesn't that imply a lie exists.

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  #23  
Old 01-07-2020, 02:07 AM
cheesethin cheesethin is offline
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.... and if the lie doesn't exist, do we call a stance violation as the player didn't have a supporting point on the lie?

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  #24  
Old 01-07-2020, 03:44 AM
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teemkey teemkey is offline
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[QUOTE=cheesethin;3534628].... and if the lie doesn't exist, do we call a stance violation as the player didn't have a supporting point on the lie?
/QUOTE]

Yes. Yes, yes, yes.
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  #25  
Old 01-07-2020, 04:24 PM
araytx araytx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheesethin View Post
While I mull on my answers to your questions I want to ask a clarifying question...

If the marker defines the lie, and if no marker is used at all, does the lie exist?

Player picks up their thrown disc, and throws it without placing anything as a marker. What's the call?

If we call a marking violation only, doesn't that imply a lie exists.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheesethin View Post
.... and if the lie doesn't exist, do we call a stance violation as the player didn't have a supporting point on the lie?

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1. Yes

2. If thrown from the "correct lie" if marker had been used, and meeting all other requirements of 802.07 it is a marking violation; if thrown "incorrectly", i.e. in violation of 802.07, it is a stance violation. The decision belongs to the group, however they make it.

3. Yes

4. not applicable; see response above
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  #26  
Old 01-07-2020, 04:36 PM
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BogeyNoMore BogeyNoMore is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve West View Post
To be clear, there is NO disc golf equivalent to bolf's "addressing the ball".
Properly addressing discs is absolutely essential for a good i-trader rating. Misinformation like this is what killed DGCR's Marketplace.

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Last edited by BogeyNoMore; 01-07-2020 at 04:38 PM.
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  #27  
Old 01-19-2020, 08:58 AM
cheesethin cheesethin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve West View Post
No rule could possibly stand up to "can easily be read as being written with the assumption of...". You could make any rule say anything you want with that qualification.

If there was to be an assumption that the mini was placed correctly, the rule would have said something like: "behind where the marker should be".
Yes, I'm going to walk that particular claim back. The idea that the lie moves with the marker challenged my assumptions. So I've gone back and re read the rules pertaining to marking and moving lies. And it would seem my assumptions were wrong!

For further discussion, I've attached a pic with various scenarios. The black rectangle is where the lie 'should' be. The red circle and rectangle are where the mini has been inadvertently moved to. What do you think are ALL the rules being violated in EACH scenario if a player throws from where the blue foot is? In D. no marker has been used.
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  #28  
Old 01-21-2020, 04:13 AM
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Odedge Odedge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheesethin View Post
Yes, I'm going to walk that particular claim back. The idea that the lie moves with the marker challenged my assumptions. So I've gone back and re read the rules pertaining to marking and moving lies. And it would seem my assumptions were wrong!

For further discussion, I've attached a pic with various scenarios. The black rectangle is where the lie 'should' be. The red circle and rectangle are where the mini has been inadvertently moved to. What do you think are ALL the rules being violated in EACH scenario if a player throws from where the blue foot is? In D. no marker has been used.
This is like going to a PDGA rules school!

A: Breaks rule 802.06 D [Warning for a marking violation even though people would probably call a foot fault since they would be looking at the marker as the correct lie].

B: Breaks rule 802.06 D [Warning for a marking violation if someone saw them move the marker to an incorrect position] and then I assume they break rule 802.07 A1 if the blue foot is the only supporting support at the time of release [One stroke penalty].

C: Same as scenario B

D: Breaks rule 802.06 D [Warning for a marking violation].

Since you can't receive multiple penalty throws, the Q&A section states the first violation to occur is the one that counts. So this player should receive a warning for the first offense and a penalty throw for each additional offense in the same round.
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