#421  
Old 10-30-2019, 11:11 AM
robdeforge robdeforge is offline
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Originally Posted by ThrowBot View Post
Recently at PDGA headquarters...

as I've said before: don't get so caught up on names

maybe you guys could turn your energy towards telling the NHL that they have to change their name because there are 7 Canadian teams
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  #422  
Old 10-30-2019, 11:12 AM
ToddL ToddL is offline
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Originally Posted by Smigles View Post
Elite events should be for the elite. If your rating is not 4-digit you are not in the elite.

That would mean we need a "MPE" category though, "Mixed professional elite".
LVC:
64 > 1000
92 < 1000

GBO:
52 > 1000
92 < 1000

MC:
51 > 1000
30 < 1000

BSF:
59 > 1000
21 < 1000

DDGC:
30 > 1000
42 < 1000

HoF:
46 > 1000
42 < 1000

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  #423  
Old 10-30-2019, 01:18 PM
ballgolfconvert ballgolfconvert is offline
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Originally Posted by tallpaul View Post
As a person, like 3Putt who has been involved in parks and rec for 35 years now, and have run privatized leagues for 10 years. Reserving courses will require fees that league members will have to pay. I much prefer the live and let live scenario.
We pay no fees at all for reserving our courses.
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  #424  
Old 10-30-2019, 01:22 PM
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This conversation about where to draw the line is so backwards. 900? 950? 1000? Hey, here's an option: DON'T DRAW A LINE.

Any performance benchmark that you set as a threshold for tournament entrance is arbitrary. Really, is an 899 rated player that different from a 900 rated player? Or 949 from 950? That's the sort of trivial distinction being made. Someone winds up getting hosed. Where you set the cusp of qualification only decides who in particular is hung out to dry.

But you don't even have to cross that bridge if you stop and realize that MPO has always been -- and still should be -- an unrestricted division. Why would you abandon that simple premise? Let any and all competition come (until no more spots remain in the tournament, of course) and at the end of it all, the best score wins.

That's what makes MPO great, in my opinion. The unfettered elegance of open competition. Or more correctly, that's what made the division great, because in the future MP"O" will be a misnomer at our top events.

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  #425  
Old 10-30-2019, 01:39 PM
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So to the questioners, yes I do really care about "open"-ness. Not just in name, but more importantly in the spirit of competition.

And to be clear: I'm 100% in favor of tired registration. If Lloyd Weema doesn't get a spot because a herd of much better players got to register first, that's fine. But if you get through every tier of registration and there are still spots available, and Weema wants to throw his hat in the ring, why not let him?

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  #426  
Old 10-30-2019, 02:41 PM
ballgolfconvert ballgolfconvert is offline
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Originally Posted by ThrowBot View Post
So to the questioners, yes I do really care about "open"-ness. Not just in name, but more importantly in the spirit of competition.

And to be clear: I'm 100% in favor of tired registration. If Lloyd Weema doesn't get a spot because a herd of much better players got to register first, that's fine. But if you get through every tier of registration and there are still spots available, and Weema wants to throw his hat in the ring, why not let him?
Open doesn't mean what you think it does. Most sports have Open tournaments which are actually only Open to certain caliber of players. I believe Open in disc golf means open to all sexes.

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  #427  
Old 10-30-2019, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ballgolfconvert View Post
Open doesn't mean what you think it does.
***double checks dictionary***
Yes it does.

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Originally Posted by ballgolfconvert View Post
Most sports have Open tournaments which are actually only Open to certain caliber of players.
Lol, great point.
Other sports have deceptively named events and divisions, we should be just like them!

Color me unimpressed.

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  #428  
Old 10-30-2019, 02:59 PM
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davetherocketguy davetherocketguy is offline
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Originally Posted by ThrowBot View Post
Lol, great point.
Other sports have deceptively named events and divisions, we should be just like them!

Color me unimpressed.
Yeah, I have never understood this need to emulate what everyone else does - especially ball golf seeing how many golf courses are closing at an astonishing rate. Just because that's what they do doesn't mean that's what is best for disc golf.

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  #429  
Old 10-30-2019, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ThrowBot View Post
So to the questioners, yes I do really care about "open"-ness. Not just in name, but more importantly in the spirit of competition.

And to be clear: I'm 100% in favor of tired registration. If Lloyd Weema doesn't get a spot because a herd of much better players got to register first, that's fine. But if you get through every tier of registration and there are still spots available, and Weema wants to throw his hat in the ring, why not let him?
I am fine with the PDGA's new rule as it only applies to top level competitions out there and only affects a few people. As I stated before, Simon Lizotte can't register for the FPO in his next competition and that states it's an "Open" division.

If one is in favor of tiered registration for an Open division, isn't that a form of regulation as who can play? Granted it isn't as specific as a PDGA rating, but it can have the same affect if the top rated players fill up the available spots.

I believe someone stated that if a parent signed up their four year old child to play at the Worlds in the MPO event, should they be able to do that? I would think most people would agree they shouldn't be allowed. If that's the case, then Open doesn't always mean Open.
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  #430  
Old 10-30-2019, 03:08 PM
JC17393 JC17393 is offline
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Originally Posted by ballgolfconvert View Post
Open doesn't mean what you think it does. Most sports have Open tournaments which are actually only Open to certain caliber of players. I believe Open in disc golf means open to all sexes.
That's what the "Mixed" means in MPO, and why there is a Female Pro Open that quite obviously excludes males. Open is intended to imply no restrictions for age and until recently, skill as well. Just look at the rest of the divisions and their shorthand code...MP40 = restricted to 40 year olds and older, etc.

As I've argued before, the need to restrict the Open division for so-called elite players (no matter where the line is drawn) is extremely premature. There simply aren't enough players of appropriate caliber nor enough money in the purses to sustain an exclusive tour. The less than elite players are necessary to not only supply some of the purse via their entry fees, but also to pad out the field so the number of paid places at the top assures most of the elite/touring players the opportunity to cash consistently.

If the tour were to be restricted to some sort of tour card holders (we do have such a thing already), and those fields only paid a maximum of 50% of the field, we'd have a lot fewer players cashing each week. Currently, no one is winning enough in one weekend (even finishing 1st) that they can afford to stay on the road for more than a month or so without cashing again. If players aren't winning enough to stay on tour, the field's only going to atrophy more to the point where there's no one left. Hence the need for the sub-1000 (and sub-950 and frankly sub-900) players to fill the fields and create more cashing opportunities.

We need to reach a critical mass of total players and/or a critical mass of outside sponsorship before we can have a sustainable tour exclusive to the best players in the game.

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