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  #11  
Old 11-14-2019, 11:50 AM
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Blobfish Blobfish is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keller View Post
I'd go X-Comet.

It gives options in feel. Just as many don't like the feel of the Comet, there are a lot of people who don't like the feel of a Buzzz.
The Comet adds a different feel and flight. A Buzzz-SS isn't going to be that much different to newer players than a Buzzz.
So this was my first thought. I know that there's a lot of comet-love out there and as much as I personally love the sol, I figured the comet might be a better choice. But then I remembered that Discraft makes the Buzzz SS, and hence this post, and my concern that new players really wouldn't see any difference between the SS and the regular buzzz. I have a beat X-buzzz which flies very differently than a Z-buzzz, but I would imagine that if I gave both to a new player, they'd get pretty similar results throwing each.
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  #12  
Old 11-14-2019, 12:02 PM
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It's a tough call, I think either is suitable. If you already have some Buzzz's get some Comets. People like options. If you are doing more one disc stuff the Buzzz or SS feels more like a putter to me, I used one for years.

The Comet though in terms of physics is superior and will demonstrate the concepts of flight much easier. Of course with two discs the differences in a more stable flight will be more apparent.

There's a great rant by LoPan on disc physics.

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  #13  
Old 11-14-2019, 12:04 PM
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From Noob questions or ask a stupid question thread: post 402

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoPan12 View Post
Neither am I. I do however have a degree that involved a lot of fluid dynamics. And before you ask the question, air is a fluid. And ArcheType, you're sort of right. I'll try to make this as understandable as I can....but this will get REAL sciencey, so bear with me please, or feel free to just skip this post entirely. Or better yet, go hit the end. After finishing up, I realized the first couple paragraphs aren't directly about "Why do I get more glide as it beats in"

Since we're talking about glide here, we'll treat the disc, as a whole, like a wing, or airfoil, as seen here.

Okay. When the disc flies through the air, you get a distinct seperation of air flow. Now consider two particles that get split up be the disc, one goes on top, one goes on the bottom. They will meet up again, behind the disc, so, because the top one has to travel farther, it is going faster. As speed increases, pressure decreases. You are left with a lower pressure area above the disc, and a higher pressure area below the disc. This phenomenon is called "LIFT" and for a given speed, will overcome the weight of the disc, and push it up. And what about that empty space under the disc? Well in that space, you get all sorts of forces, and I'm not totally sure what the net effect is...so...I'm not even gonna try.
When you now consider the rotation, think about relative speeds. For a RHBH, the left edge of the disc is moving faster than the right edge. So, due to the higher speed, the left edge will create MORE LIFT than the right side. This is shown in Fig. A below. The blue line is the amount of lift exterted on the disc. This is where you get the effect of flip, or HSS. The cant of the the disc then causes the overall lift force to steer the disc to the right.

AH! So why don't all my discs keep going right?
Well...you've got a rotating mass. This causes gyroscopic forces having to do with angular momentum and pitch and roll and whatnot. In a nutshell, the rotating mass of the disc causes a sum of forces call gyroscopic procession. This is what causes LSS, same as HSS, just the opposite direction. Fig. B shows the this force on the disc.
When you first release the disc, it has the most spin it ever will in that flight, and the assymetrical lift forces will outweigh precessional roll. But as the disc slows down, the lift forces aren't as large, and the disc rolls to the left.

It slows down, because of DRAG! Drag is a force that opposes your disc. The friction between the disc and air rob energy and the spin reduces, and the forward speed declines! BTW, a driver has less drag than a putter, due to putters having a blunt edge. So a driver's flight is therefore less lift-driven, and more ballistic. But don't think about that for now.

NOW, those of you still reading (god-bless you) are asking, "Okay, neat...what's this s#$t have to do with beating in and more glide?"
Well, turbulence is our friend here. A turbulent boundary layer on the surfaces of the disc eventually result in less drag! There's more fluid dynamics involved here, but trust me when I say, you end up with less drag. This is why golf balls are dimpled, but the reasons are a bit different for a sphere.
So, as you beat in a disc, it gets all these micro abrasions, that cause little eddies and vortexes that add up to turbulent, chaotic flow. In some cases, while this turbulence increases surface friction drag, the overall effect is a reduction in drag forces. This has to do with boundary layers, seperation points, and changes in pressure fields. But I'm damned tired.
The beating in reduces drag (to a point, then you start to get screwed again) allowing a disc to maintain the various lift forces for longer, lettings it go longer before fading, letting it glide longer.
Yeah. I think. Good Night.

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  #14  
Old 11-15-2019, 04:44 PM
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I'd go with the Buzzz SS. Will grip the same as a Buzzz, and demonstrate an understable flight without adding an additional variable. Maybe even toss a few Buzzz OS's in the cart just to demonstrate the full spectrum.
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  #15  
Old 11-15-2019, 05:05 PM
elmexdela elmexdela is offline
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are they even gettin the buzzes up to speed to where they would notice the differences

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  #16  
Old 11-15-2019, 05:22 PM
BryanC BryanC is offline
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Do you need to buy more mids? If I knew a beginner that already had a buzzz and a putter, I would probably recommend a Sting for the next disc (assuming you want to stick with Discraft). I've thrown the ace race Sting and I thought it flew like a beat in Leopard, which is perfect for a beginner driver.
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  #17  
Old 11-15-2019, 05:22 PM
MaxFlight MaxFlight is offline
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Have you considered a Meteor?

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  #18  
Old 11-15-2019, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elmexdela View Post
are they even gettin the buzzes up to speed to where they would notice the differences
This.

The Buzzz and Buzzz SS are essentially the same disc for low-power throwers. There isn't enough difference in them that players with minimal skill will see much (if any) change. Meteors are the same way, you have to know how to throw to get it to have the understable flight it is supposed to have. Comets fly OK ish at low power so they might work better. Or not, it's hard to know. You would have to go with the Sol to have something that would be really noticeably different for low power/low skill players.

If the kids are actually throwing the Buzzz pretty well, you can throw out everything I typed.

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  #19  
Old 11-17-2019, 10:25 AM
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mshelton mshelton is offline
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I bag Comets and a regular Buzzz, I've thrown an SS Buzzz a few times.

For me the Comet always feels power hungry, not being a disc that really like being thrown at lower speeds, might just be me but all the Comets I've owned (X, Z, ESP, gloZ, gloESP) were the same in that characteristic, they wanted power.

I've had quite a few Buzzzs over the years from the original bar stamp to TI (haven't thrown the new swirlies or PMcB) and none of them had the power hungry feeling I get from a Comet, they all seemed to be fine powered down, different flights of course but not incapacitated like a low powered Comet.

If picking between the 2 for starting players I'd say the Buzzz SS.

Someone here also mentioned the Sol, if you aren't set on either the Comet or Buzzz SS then it may be worth a look as to me they fly like a non power hungry Comet.
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  #20  
Old 11-17-2019, 01:37 PM
Frolf Lundgren Frolf Lundgren is offline
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I agree with those saying find something less stable than either a buzzz ss or a comet to demonstrate understability in comparison to a buzzz for beginners. I’m an intermediate player and bought a new Z comet recently that would not turn until months of playing with it. The feel was something I hated as a beginner but forced myself to get used to once I realized how useful it was on the course.

I learned the hyzer flip and turnover with a Discraft Archer, which had a comfortable rim and was my longest flying disc for a long time. I pass this thing to every friend I introduce to the sport and they always gravitate toward it. I don’t know how available they are but I don’t hesitate in recommending them as a learning tool/max distance driver for students.
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