#11  
Old 11-14-2019, 08:25 AM
Armus Patheticus Armus Patheticus is offline
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Originally Posted by Jugular View Post
So putter, approach, mid, mid driver, fairway, control, distance? Starting to get to be a long list. I do think these might be more useful than speed ratings and help distinguish those discs with different flight characteristics that sit on border speed ratings.

Sorry what was your point about the pros? They use P&As rather than P&As and Putters? Or they used Putters rather than P&As and Putters?

I was looking at the Inbounds inFlight guide to get a better feel for the flight characteristics of discs I know, compared to discs people talk about. Obviously this is not going to be perfectly scientific (for one it doesn't account for the different effects of more spin vs more speed). Are they considered valuable by at least some DGers?

I spotted that the Classic Aviar is just dead straight. I haven't seen other putters with that same flight path and wondered whether: a) is this flight path true of the Classic Aviar, b) are there some putters with the same flight path that I'm missing, c) why isn't this the ideal putter, since fade obviously makes a putt less accurate.
Flight charts and speed rating and flight numbers are not precise, or often even accurate. There are many discs with the neutral flight of a classic Aviar, but all discs will fade at low speed. There is no need to categorize discs as you propose at the beginning of your post. As long as they do what you need, it shouldn't matter what the label says.
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  #12  
Old 11-14-2019, 10:21 AM
Jugular Jugular is offline
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Originally Posted by Armus Patheticus View Post
Flight charts and speed rating and flight numbers are not precise, or often even accurate. There are many discs with the neutral flight of a classic Aviar, but all discs will fade at low speed. There is no need to categorize discs as you propose at the beginning of your post. As long as they do what you need, it shouldn't matter what the label says.
I find that my Mako3s have virtually no fade at all even at low speed, it doesn't seem unlikely that the same would be the case for other discs, even putters. Do you have any suggestions of some discs that share the neutral flight of a classic Aviar?

So if I ask the question "I want a disc that let's me get from 150' out onto a precarious green" you suggest I should ignore the label and just trial discs from all categories and speeds to see which one works as a disc for that purpose? There are a lot of discs out there to choose from, not to mention plastic types, stamps, colours and runs (which all supposedly make a difference). Tools to narrow the field of inquiry seem eminently useful, if not essential.

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  #13  
Old 11-14-2019, 12:44 PM
Armus Patheticus Armus Patheticus is offline
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Originally Posted by Jugular View Post
I find that my Mako3s have virtually no fade at all even at low speed, it doesn't seem unlikely that the same would be the case for other discs, even putters. Do you have any suggestions of some discs that share the neutral flight of a classic Aviar?

So if I ask the question "I want a disc that let's me get from 150' out onto a precarious green" you suggest I should ignore the label and just trial discs from all categories and speeds to see which one works as a disc for that purpose? There are a lot of discs out there to choose from, not to mention plastic types, stamps, colours and runs (which all supposedly make a difference). Tools to narrow the field of inquiry seem eminently useful, if not essential.
There are dozens of discs equally equipped to get you from 150' out onto a precarious green. Obviously drivers (though they would work too) will be slightly more difficult to finesse. Any putter and most mids would be excellent. The only thing that's essential is practice.

Given a chance (height), a Mako3 will fade plenty, as will all other golf discs. I have a beat up lightweight Polecat that will helicopter to the ground almost like an ultimate disc, but that flight is uncommon and not particularly useful in disc golf. There are dozens of discs with a flight as neutral, or more so, than a Mako3, including many many putters.

The specific discs are unimportant. I, for example throw backhand and forehand; straight, straight to fade, hyzer-flip, flex, turnover, anhyzer, spike hyzer, skip, distance roller, cut roller, distance thumber, skip thumber, tomahawk, and grenade. I am able to accomplish all of these throws to the limit of my skill with about eight discs. No additional discs could improve my score, and I could replace any of my discs with any of dozens of molds from any manufacturer in a heartbeat.
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  #14  
Old 11-14-2019, 09:53 PM
Casey 1988 Casey 1988 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jugular View Post
I find that my Mako3s have virtually no fade at all even at low speed, it doesn't seem unlikely that the same would be the case for other discs, even putters. Do you have any suggestions of some discs that share the neutral flight of a classic Aviar?

So if I ask the question "I want a disc that let's me get from 150' out onto a precarious green" you suggest I should ignore the label and just trial discs from all categories and speeds to see which one works as a disc for that purpose? There are a lot of discs out there to choose from, not to mention plastic types, stamps, colours and runs (which all supposedly make a difference). Tools to narrow the field of inquiry seem eminently useful, if not essential.
Colors rarely make a difference with most brands and plastics now. Same now for most stamps unless they designate the run(s) or are a specific tournament dated stamp or an older run of the disc do make a difference. Some of the way the plastic looks affects the throw and or feel of the disc though as a cloudy Z disc generally ends up more stiff.
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Old 11-15-2019, 11:22 AM
Jugular Jugular is offline
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Colors rarely make a difference with most brands and plastics now. Same now for most stamps unless they designate the run(s) or are a specific tournament dated stamp or an older run of the disc do make a difference. Some of the way the plastic looks affects the throw and or feel of the disc though as a cloudy Z disc generally ends up more stiff.
I have been thinking about how to get a group of consistent discs to allow me to practice in the field more effectively. Currently I throw my whole bag and adjust accordingly for what I think are the best throws to get maximum distance out of each disc. The problem with this is I get very little view of what variation there is in my throw. I only have three duplicate discs and though I see variation between them I've often just come off throwing quite a different disc the throw before. Not to mention that though they are mold duplicates, they aren't necessarily weight, wear and plastic duplicates.

The problem with trying to buy a consistent collection of discs is that retailers tend not to sell them. i.e. if I look across UK disc sellers I can rarely get more than two of an identical disc (in terms of weight, plastic and mold).

The other thing is that buying say, 10, of a certain disc is a reasonable sized investment and I don't think I've thrown enough variety of discs to know basics over whether I'm happy throwing, for example, beaded discs, X(? or is it L, the slanted one)-rim discs, Star or GStar plastics, not to mention the variation across brands in terms of plastic.

I don't want a garage full of hundreds of discs, I just want to buy enough to train effectively and fill a small bag for playing rounds.
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  #16  
Old 11-15-2019, 03:21 PM
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Hank Scorpio Hank Scorpio is offline
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Where are you in the UK?
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  #17  
Old 11-15-2019, 06:34 PM
EarthRocker EarthRocker is offline
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Something you'll notice eventually, Jugular, is that, despite not really wanting a garage full of discs, you'll probably acquire enough to at least need a separate storage box for them...

Seriously. I rarely buy discs, and find it hilarious that some guys have literally hundreds of them lying around, either in the boot of their vehicle, or in boxes around their homes. It actually used to be a point of pride for me to say, "What I own, I carry."
But what happens - to me, at least - is that I have enough good friends who know my game and which discs I throw well, and if I lose one, or they come across a cool-looking Warship (for example; it's one of my favorites and I always have at least two in my bag), they'l grab it and gift it to me. What am I gonna do, say "No, thanks, I have three already..." No, sir.
So the accrual happens almost without noticing it. And suddenly, I have as many in a box as I do in my bag.

But Mr. Patheticus feels the way I do about all this. If a disc feels good in the hand, and it does something useful, bag it! I can't tell you how many different types of discs I've changed out over time - and none of it had anything to do with premeditation on flight numbers, or a mold, or a plastic. It just comes from the suggestions of others and a willingness to fumble around a bit.
Further, in my bag now, I have G-Star Shryke and Thunderbird; Champion Thunderbird and Roadrunner; MVP Axiom Envy and Relay; Westside VIP Warships, Seer, and Tursus; Discraft Z Comets; a glow Nova; a really old DX Aviar, and a McPro Aviar. Oh, and a super-beat Harp. Schizophrenic as hell, right? I make no apologies.

But if I were to lose, say, the Envys, I'd be back to square one with stable driving putters, because I don't believe I'd find any that fly exactly like mine. So I'd be open to suggestions, and might end up throwing something really crazy, like a Polecat.

When it feels right, you know it. There's nothing wrong with a scientific approach to learning as much as possible about flight characteristics and all that. Knowledge IS power, after all. But there is also something to be said for the improvisational and intuitive approach. In other words, don't over-think it. Sounds to me like you're moving along pretty quickly as it is. Trust your instincts, throw what you like, and go win some money. Or something.
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  #18  
Old 11-18-2019, 11:26 AM
Jugular Jugular is offline
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Where are you in the UK?
I'm in Surrey.
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Old 11-18-2019, 11:32 AM
Jugular Jugular is offline
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...

But Mr. Patheticus feels the way I do about all this. If a disc feels good in the hand, and it does something useful, bag it! I can't tell you how many different types of discs I've changed out over time - and none of it had anything to do with premeditation on flight numbers, or a mold, or a plastic. It just comes from the suggestions of others and a willingness to fumble around a bit.

...

When it feels right, you know it. There's nothing wrong with a scientific approach to learning as much as possible about flight characteristics and all that. Knowledge IS power, after all. But there is also something to be said for the improvisational and intuitive approach. In other words, don't over-think it. Sounds to me like you're moving along pretty quickly as it is. Trust your instincts, throw what you like, and go win some money. Or something.
This all presupposes access to these discs to throw them. This may be trivially easy for you guys in parts of the world where there is a thriving community of disc golfers and plenty of local courses. You could probably fit all the UK disc golfers on a basketball court.

If I want to buy a disc I have to really seek it out and pay at least double what you guys do for a new disc. There is no second hand market to speak of (that I'm aware of) and few opportunities to throw other discs unless you're at the course on the regular. So if I want to try out a disc I have to buy it... I don't want to buy discs I don't want to bag. I accept I will almost certainly do this now and again but I don't want to make a habit of it!
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  #20  
Old 11-18-2019, 12:26 PM
EarthRocker EarthRocker is offline
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You're right, sir - I apologize for being a typical American. I strive against such tendencies most of the time, but failed badly here.

Here's hoping you stumble across many lost, unmarked discs in your travels, like an Easter Egg hunt. A different one each time, too, until you have a bagful of choices in all the brightest colors.

Or come to southeastern US some day, and ring me up. I'll give you so many discs you'll have to check another bag for the flight home.
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