#41  
Old 02-18-2019, 05:07 PM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Originally Posted by cheesethin View Post
Your starting point seems to be that leaving equipment behind the lie is somehow approved or proper or correct. But all the rules say is



they don't give any prescription as to where that is. And where interference 'may occur' will vary based on terrain, shot etc. Certainly for tee shots and fairway shots somewhere behind the lie probably is the optimum place for the least chance of interference. But for an uphill putt, stuff behind your lie is in the premium zone for interference.
i am not arguing that the rules as written allow for it. i am arguing that the rules would make more sense if equipment that is sitting in a perfectly reasonable spot is treated as part of the course rather than randomly penalizing a player unlucky enough to have a disc roll back and strike it.
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Old 02-18-2019, 05:08 PM
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krupicka krupicka is offline
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Originally Posted by IHearChains View Post
810 Interference
G. Players must not stand or leave their equipment where interference with a disc in play may occur...

-------

After the previously thrown disc comes to rest, players have no control over where they leave the marker. It stays at the lie. Therefore, the rules already differentiate between the marker (or disc in play) and all other equipment. Otherwise, we would all have to remove our markers before anyone putts.

However, MTL is arguing that the rules intend for markers to be treated exactly like all other equipment.

His assertion is what is causing the ambiguity, not the rule itself.
i thought the discussion is on this rule "810.F: If a player or their equipment interferes with their own throw, the player is assessed one penalty throw. The disc is played where it first comes to rest. See 810.E for intentional interference."

There is no ambiguity here.
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Old 02-18-2019, 05:10 PM
biscoe biscoe is offline
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Originally Posted by _MTL_ View Post
It interfered with the disc.
as opposed to the equipment which was left 6 inches away and not struck by a randomly rolling disc? sounds like the 2 meter rule to me- random penalty. a player could leave his bag 1000 feet away and be unfortunate enough to be penalized.

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Old 02-18-2019, 05:12 PM
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krupicka krupicka is offline
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The old rule left ambiguity as to whether or not a player should attempt to move his own equipment in the event that his own throw was about to strike that equipment. Now it's pretty clear. Just get it out of the way regardless of wherever you left it.

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Old 02-18-2019, 05:32 PM
ILUVSMGS18 ILUVSMGS18 is offline
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Originally Posted by krupicka View Post
Just get it out of the way regardless of wherever you left it.
Since I play courses that the rough can be really hard to navigate by myself, having a bulky bag on my bag just increases my risk of injury, or possible damage to the course, I will leave it in an open area, usually somewhere near where I went in, which in most cases is the edge of the fairway. Say I throw a shot and it miraculously hits a tree and rolls and hits my bag, but I'm in the middle of brambles, and can't get out in a super quick manner, I should get penalized? Definitely a random penalty, that probably only adds to a bad score already on that hole. Your idea is good on paper, but has the ability to be controversial especially in the example I gave.
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Old 02-18-2019, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ILUVSMGS18 View Post
Since I play courses that the rough can be really hard to navigate by myself, having a bulky bag on my bag just increases my risk of injury, or possible damage to the course, I will leave it in an open area, usually somewhere near where I went in, which in most cases is the edge of the fairway. Say I throw a shot and it miraculously hits a tree and rolls and hits my bag, but I'm in the middle of brambles, and can't get out in a super quick manner, I should get penalized? Definitely a random penalty, that probably only adds to a bad score already on that hole. Your idea is good on paper, but has the ability to be controversial especially in the example I gave.
And how many times has this happened to you? (Not getting stuck in the brambles, but hitting your bag on an errant shot while trying to throw out of them). If it's more than once either you are really unlucky or you need to find a better place to put your bag.

We all can dream up plenty of what-ifs. It's not hard. The current rule encourages players to think about where they leave their bag and put the onus on them to make sure it is out of the way.

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Old 02-18-2019, 06:21 PM
IHearChains IHearChains is offline
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Originally Posted by krupicka View Post
i thought the discussion is on this rule "810.F: If a player or their equipment interferes with their own throw, the player is assessed one penalty throw. The disc is played where it first comes to rest. See 810.E for intentional interference."

There is no ambiguity here.
The question is, are markers and discs in play treated the same as all other equipment?

Can someone be asked to remove their mini (or disc in play) from the area before another player throws, on grounds that it may interfere? And be issued a courtesy warning/violation if they refuse?

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  #48  
Old 02-18-2019, 06:23 PM
IHearChains IHearChains is offline
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Originally Posted by krupicka View Post
The current rule encourages players to think about where they leave their bag and put the onus on them to make sure it is out of the way.
But there is no choice where to place the marker. So you can't "make sure it is out of the way".

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Old 02-18-2019, 06:31 PM
ILUVSMGS18 ILUVSMGS18 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krupicka View Post
And how many times has this happened to you? (Not getting stuck in the brambles, but hitting your bag on an errant shot while trying to throw out of them). If it's more than once either you are really unlucky or you need to find a better place to put your bag.

We all can dream up plenty of what-ifs. It's not hard. The current rule encourages players to think about where they leave their bag and put the onus on them to make sure it is out of the way.
I've seen it happen once, and have heard of it happening another time. I suspect that if I play enough I'll eventually have it happen to me. I was simply pointing out the flaws in your thinking.
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  #50  
Old 02-18-2019, 09:54 PM
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Doofenshmirtz Doofenshmirtz is offline
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Originally Posted by krupicka View Post
Really? I'm on tee of the next hole and a disc from another fairway hits my bag, I should be penalized? There's at least once where I was sitting behind the tee box on my hole waiting for my turn to throw when i dove out of the way at the last minute to avoid being hit by an errant shot from another hole. Player next to me got a big welt. That player should be penalized?
Well, to be a little more up front, I don't like the interference rule at all as it relates to equipment. Players don't put things on the course for the purpose of gaining some advantage in the off chance that their disc might ricochet off something, or roll behind them, and hit their equipment and provide them with some advantage by mitigating the damage to their score from an errant shot. I don't think a player should have to worry about moving their marker disc, thrown disc, mini marker, cart, towel or anything else after they throw. If a competitor thinks that the equipment is placed such that the thrower can thereby gain an advantage, the objecting player should object prior to the throw, just as the thrower can ask his/her competitor to move their equipment.

But, if there is going to be an interference rule, it should apply to, at least, everyone in the thrower's group IMO. I could go for an exemption for those playing a different hole or waiting at the next, current or previous tee area.

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