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View Poll Results: Stable
Overstable 21 11.29%
Straight 151 81.18%
Understable 0 0%
Something else 14 7.53%
Voters: 186. You may not vote on this poll

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  #151  
Old 08-09-2020, 03:15 AM
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GripEnemy GripEnemy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmandiscer View Post
On average the EX mold is more stable. The EL is less stable then the Teebird. (irrelevant)
I agree with your definitions here.

Is it difficult to say more overstable or more understable? No biggie, I digress. Forget the quotes..

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmandiscer View Post
What if the disc you are describing is Straight as you would use "Stable"? What direction are you going? It's unclear and confusing to the reader. When you write or peak you want to clearly get your message across. Not confuse them.
I don't say stable without over or under prefixes...dig through my post history if you want. I'll wait.

I also don't say straight without context. Did I power up on an 8/10 Champ TB or did I hyzerflip a gentle 4/10 Cobra? You can't just say "stable" or "straight" without context. Overstable clearly means no matter how you threw it, it has relatively high resistance to turn, and genuine fade. The opposite goes for understable.

Just like you did in your EX EL example ^^there, I would take the time to add a few words beyond "my" version of stable. I would say an EL has both more turn and less fade than an EX, and would follow that up with an EX has more fade than both an EL and a standard Teebird.

Did you hyzerflip it? Are you throwing nose up?

You have no problem spending time talking to me and Hampstead about the subject, why not spend the time and words to talk about it to others?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmandiscer View Post
Use "More stable" fades harder/sooner/or more resistant to turn.
Use "Less stable" Fades less/later/or turns more, etc.
More fade fades harder/sooner. Use your words like an adult. Fade has precisely zero to do with resistance to turn - low vs. high speed portions of the flight

Less fade, well, fades less. More turn is more turn.

See where I'm going? Talk about them uniquely because...they're different than one another.



Why do you need to lump two things together? My kick power, head kicks percentage, and head kick knockout numbers are all irrelevant to one another without context.


Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmandiscer View Post
CHART


Most stable .................................................. ........................ Least stable

FAF Firebird/ Banshee/ Eagle X/ Teebird/ TL/ EL/ Leopard/ Sidewinder/ RR

Using your lingo, which is straighter/most stable a TL or EL? I can't answer that even. If I can't even answer a question for myself how is anyone else suppose to answer it either?
Easy. A TL is straighter because it has less turn and less fade than an EL. I actually took the time to talk about two things, turn and fade, unlike you.





Your laziness (yet persistence which I somehow admire) is more absurd than the Hulk analogies
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Last edited by GripEnemy; 08-09-2020 at 03:18 AM. Reason: grammar
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  #152  
Old 08-09-2020, 05:48 AM
oldmandiscer oldmandiscer is offline
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Gripenemy, Neither disc is Overstable nor Understable (discs that fly approximately -1/1), that is the problem saying a straightish disc is either, it's a poor description labeling it as such.

I don't say my beat in Teebird is understable, nor do I say it's overstable. Labeling it as such would be misrepresenting it.
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  #153  
Old 08-09-2020, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmandiscer View Post
Gripenemy, Neither disc is Overstable nor Understable (discs that fly approximately -1/1), that is the problem saying a straightish disc is either, it's a poor description labeling it as such.

I don't say my beat in Teebird is understable, nor do I say it's overstable. Labeling it as such would be misrepresenting it.
I get what you're saying here, but you're missing my point.

Only talking about one specific disc I.E. a 10/10 max weight Z Buzzz, I would mention its turn and fade relative to my throwing capabilities. When Comparing it to a 4x Kenny Roc I would say _____ has more turn, less turn, more fade, less fade, than _____. Same as we refer to glide. I would also refer to their weights and beatness...context.

(No, I don't on the course to strangers say, my "6/10 Buzzz" but I would mention that I've been throwing it for a years and it's beat.)


A beat in DX Teebird does become understable. A beat in Champ TB tends to become more neutral.


a -1/1 disc is more or less overstable than a ____ disc, or more/less understable than _____. If I'm only speaking about the -1/1 then I would be more inclined to call it neutral, but truly I'd mention it has mild turn and mild fade. How is it so tough to mention the words turn and fade instead of just stable?
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  #154  
Old 08-09-2020, 02:35 PM
oldmandiscer oldmandiscer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GripEnemy View Post
I get what you're saying here, but you're missing my point.

Only talking about one specific disc I.E. a 10/10 max weight Z Buzzz, I would mention its turn and fade relative to my throwing capabilities. When Comparing it to a 4x Kenny Roc I would say _____ has more turn, less turn, more fade, less fade, than _____. Same as we refer to glide. I would also refer to their weights and beatness...context.

(No, I don't on the course to strangers say, my "6/10 Buzzz" but I would mention that I've been throwing it for a years and it's beat.)


A beat in DX Teebird does become understable. A beat in Champ TB tends to become more neutral.


a -1/1 disc is more or less overstable than a ____ disc, or more/less understable than _____. If I'm only speaking about the -1/1 then I would be more inclined to call it neutral, but truly I'd mention it has mild turn and mild fade. How is it so tough to mention the words turn and fade instead of just stable?
The disc isn't overstable nor understable really having both small turn and fade, you can't call said disc say DX Teebird is more understable then the say Champion Teebird. Because the Teebird IS NOT UNDERSTABLE nor is it Overstable. You would be implying the Teebird is Understable and it IS NOT.

So that is your problem. There is no set disc everyone can call the center line stable. It doesn't exist. What is straightISH for Eagle McMahon won't be straight for most others, same on the beginner side.

In reality every disc thrown fast enough or high enough will turn AND fade. Most do naturally as well.

To simplify things it is FAR easier to simply say one disc is either more or less stable then another. Sure you can be more specific as well and mention flight numbers too.
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  #155  
Old 08-09-2020, 04:08 PM
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I quit.

Cheers, friend.
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  #156  
Old 08-10-2020, 07:11 PM
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BogeyNoMore BogeyNoMore is offline
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Arguements aren't necessarily one by who's right, or lost by who's wrong.

They're usually "won" by whomever has the endurance to blather on the longest, even if what they're blathering is crap.

Americans hardly ever truly listen anymore, let alone really understand what someone else is saying. We mostly just like to hear ourselves talk.

We're more concerned about convincing others that we know something, than we are about actually knowing something.
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  #157  
Old 08-11-2020, 04:26 AM
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dreadlock86 dreadlock86 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmandiscer View Post
The disc isn't overstable nor understable really having both small turn and fade, you can't call said disc say DX Teebird is more understable then the say Champion Teebird. Because the Teebird IS NOT UNDERSTABLE nor is it Overstable. You would be implying the Teebird is Understable and it IS NOT.

So that is your problem. There is no set disc everyone can call the center line stable. It doesn't exist. What is straightISH for Eagle McMahon won't be straight for most others, same on the beginner side.

In reality every disc thrown fast enough or high enough will turn AND fade. Most do naturally as well.

To simplify things it is FAR easier to simply say one disc is either more or less stable then another. Sure you can be more specific as well and mention flight numbers too.

there's no winning an argument where opposing sides refuse to agree on a definition.

it seems most people here define stable as a category meaning "straight-ish". i think it's ridiculous and prefer to define stability as spectrum where stable means more likely to have higher ratings for turn and fade. i think you agree. more stable or less stable should be perfectly acceptable descriptions when comparing discs and i think neutral ought to be the word used to describe a straight disc.

OS....................neutral....................U S
<-------------------------------------------
<-----------increasing stability-----------

more stable = moving left
less stable = moving right

also, when used that way the words better retain their meanings even when describing different power levels. it's also obvious what you mean when you say a disc is neutral but not at all clear when you say a disc is stable. but i doubt anyone here is going to view utility, clarity, or precision of language as a good enough reason to change their mind on such a consequential issue.


tl;dr you're preaching to the choir and deaf ears. it's hopeless, give up

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  #158  
Old 08-11-2020, 04:50 AM
Casey 1988 Casey 1988 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreadlock86 View Post
there's no winning an argument where opposing sides refuse to agree on a definition.

it seems most people here define stable as a category meaning "straight-ish". i think it's ridiculous and prefer to define stability as spectrum where stable means more likely to have higher ratings for turn and fade. i think you agree. more stable or less stable should be perfectly acceptable descriptions when comparing discs and i think neutral ought to be the word used to describe a straight disc.

OS....................neutral....................U S
<-------------------------------------------
<-----------increasing stability-----------

more stable = moving left
less stable = moving right

also, when used that way the words better retain their meanings even when describing different power levels. it's also obvious what you mean when you say a disc is neutral but not at all clear when you say a disc is stable. but i doubt anyone here is going to view utility, clarity, or precision of language as a good enough reason to change their mind on such a consequential issue.


tl;dr you're preaching to the choir and deaf ears. it's hopeless, give up
Yep and some like me using a Stable disc for Disc Golf as term for a disc that holds the flight put on the mold no matter the stability and use Over-stable as a term for Discs _|_|-1|2 or more and US for discs _|_|-2|2 or more. I then do more OS or highly OS for discs on the further end of the spectrum and more US or highly US for disc on the further end of the spectrum and like you use Neutral for discs mostly in the middle. Some discs do not follow the numbers given but then I call them by the proper term needed.
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