#331  
Old 07-28-2021, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
Watch how my front foot leaves the ground in the backswing, my heel gets pulled up first from the body turning back and my toes stay pointed more downward in the stride and turning back with the pelvis, toe down hip swing. You kind of pick your toes up to stride and turn forward, toe up hip swing.

Ok, I do see that. But it seems like a very minor difference? What exactly is the end result between the two? Of your lead heel picking up in the backswing vs my foot being more flat and moving forward? It looks like my butt and lower body is definitely leading the throw, just like your throw. So can you explain why it makes a difference?

Lets say, hypothetically, I did EVERYTHING perfectly except that part, what would the end results be? Would there be a miniscule, medium or large difference in the end result (meaning distance and accuracy)?

Also, what would the end result difference be for pushing off of your rear foot with your foot more flat vs your foot in plantar flexion (up on your toes)? I know in our two example videos you used, we're not doing an X step, so we're not going to be UP on our toes coming into the plant. But I'm going to guess here that it has to do with gravity/energy? And just getting that tiny little extra bit of gravity to assist you going down and forward into the plant could get you a little more distance? Or does it make a big difference in distance? I've always noticed Simon does that REALLY well and I have a hard time doing that. As I'm always trying to work on and correct a thousand things at once. So I'm not worrying about that right now. Just trying to focus on a few things at a time this year, and get better at those, before moving on. But just curious in general.

And I've watched that Hershiser drill a bunch of times over the last few years, and it's finally making more real world sense to me. I can see how a pitcher can get more velocity from leading with the butt first, body in balance, head centered, body moving forward but with the majority of your COG behind the throw, but looking forward, and pushing off the rear foot with foot in plantar flexion. The lower body would be moving forward at a quick pace, while the upper body is lagging and still turned, which then creates that rubberband effect you talk about often. Which would then allow the torso to come around really late with a ton of energy, and finally release the arm at a much higher speed. I also see that Hershiser move in some pros throws and especially Simon!

Thanks
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  #332  
Old 07-28-2021, 10:43 PM
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HyzerUniBomber HyzerUniBomber is offline
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Originally Posted by SuperWookie View Post
Lets say, hypothetically, I did EVERYTHING perfectly except that part, what would the end results be? Would there be a miniscule, medium or large difference in the end result (meaning distance and accuracy)?






The results are going to be big for this, because you're setting up with an open plant that can only bow outward instead of firming up to transfer ground force up the body.

In the early days of learning to close the plant foot it's a good idea to put your toe down first, then put your heal down in FRONT of you toe. That requires you to really get your shoe laces facing backwards.

like...
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  #333  
Old 07-28-2021, 10:44 PM
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so...


https://youtu.be/AwYvav4xCR8?t=9
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  #334  
Old 07-28-2021, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by SuperWookie View Post
And I've watched that Hershiser drill a bunch of times over the last few years, and it's finally making more real world sense to me. I can see how a pitcher can get more velocity from leading with the butt first, body in balance, head centered, body moving forward but with the majority of your COG behind the throw, but looking forward, and pushing off the rear foot with foot in plantar flexion. The lower body would be moving forward at a quick pace, while the upper body is lagging and still turned, which then creates that rubberband effect you talk about often. Which would then allow the torso to come around really late with a ton of energy, and finally release the arm at a much higher speed. I also see that Hershiser move in some pros throws and especially Simon!

Thanks
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  #335  
Old 07-29-2021, 11:21 AM
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The results are going to be big for this, because you're setting up with an open plant that can only bow outward instead of firming up to transfer ground force up the body.

In the early days of learning to close the plant foot it's a good idea to put your toe down first, then put your heal down in FRONT of you toe. That requires you to really get your shoe laces facing backwards.

like...
Interesting. So just my foot being slightly open and my leg being slightly bent is causing a HUGE loss in potential distance? Never would have guess that was the problem. But thank you both.

I'll try working on that now and get some video back when I can. Thanks
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  #336  
Old 07-29-2021, 12:50 PM
rgrrbt rgrrbt is offline
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Interesting. So just my foot being slightly open and my leg being slightly bent is causing a HUGE loss in potential distance? Never would have guess that was the problem. But thank you both.

I'll try working on that now and get some video back when I can. Thanks
Having the feet open/pointing in opposite directions also limits the range of motion of the hip rotation. Try it standing without a disc. With the open stance, I can rotate my hips back much less than when I close the front foot. Every little bit helps with those of us with less than Gumby-like flexibility.

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  #337  
Old 07-29-2021, 01:01 PM
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Interesting. So just my foot being slightly open and my leg being slightly bent is causing a HUGE loss in potential distance?
HUB also has the leg slightly bent in that frame, it's just the open stance being the issue.

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  #338  
Old 08-16-2021, 01:21 PM
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So I was working on trying to place my left foot more tuned back in my X step this weekend when I played, along with TRYING to plant quicker and take more time to start my throw, and I was consistently getting more distance on all my drives! I even threw a couple 360-380' on a golf line! Which for me, is the farthest I've ever thrown ON course!

It felt REALLY good and lot better than what my norm is. Although, I don't think the left foot turning more behind me made the big difference. I'm almost 100% sure it was the throwing AFTER I have planted, not while, haha. And REALLY focusing on pushing into that plant leg from the inside of my foot. All my throws felt way more powerful AND consistent, and I wasn't toppling over my plant leg forward like James Conrad. It was a fairly powerful/fast STOP, then throw. I was throwing discs WHERE I wanted them to go and felt almost like a real disc golfer, not some amateur hack, haha. Like I could just worry about where I want to throw, not HOW to throw, if you know what I mean? So that was pretty fun and encouraging. Still wasn’t every throw and still made lots of little and large mistakes all weekend. But it was good improvement. I need to keep going with this planting first and hard feeling and get even better at it, as it felt like a big change for me and the distance was there for sure.

The other thing I think helped a lot was the idea of instead of pushing or turning my shoulders and the disc behind me in the backswing, was the idea of leaving it, and working past it. So AS I moved forward, the disc stayed near the left side of my body and I just worked my way past the disc. And then really tried to get my right shoulder back farther (as you have mentioned I need to do SW22). I noticed when I didn't do that as well, my throw was not as good, and when I did it really well, my throws were longer and more consistent. So that was a nice little boost in performance. Still not seeing any crazy distance or accuracy jumps yet, but, I think this is just going to be one of those things that takes a long time with many small little improvements to see big improvement over a long period of time.

But the one thing I still can’t do or understand well is the idea that HUB always talks about being THE most important part of the distance equation, and that’s the idea of: Hand on the outside of the disc for as long as possible, disc coming in deep to your center or right pec, elbow out in front. I have done the hammer throws, the sledge throws, the water bottle drill, many many times and it just doesn’t translate to the disc. And one thing I still just don’t understand is HOW pros or good throwers get the disc from the farthest reach back point TO their chest WITHOUT “pulling” it? It makes no sense. They HAVE to be doing something with their arm, shoulder or torso to get that disc from the farthest reach back point TO their center/right pec area, which then allows them to just destroy the disc out from all the leverage that is being created. These two photos of Eagle are a prime example of what I’m talking about. HOW does he get the disc to his chest from the reachback? I think if I can figure out this part of the equation, I will start throwing way farther very quickly and all the other parts of the swing will just make that part better. But I just can’t figure this part out and need help.

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  #339  
Old 08-16-2021, 05:56 PM
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But the one thing I still can’t do or understand well is the idea that HUB always talks about being THE most important part of the distance equation, and that’s the idea of: Hand on the outside of the disc for as long as possible, disc coming in deep to your center or right pec, elbow out in front. I have done the hammer throws, the sledge throws, the water bottle drill, many many times and it just doesn’t translate to the disc. And one thing I still just don’t understand is HOW pros or good throwers get the disc from the farthest reach back point TO their chest WITHOUT “pulling” it? It makes no sense. They HAVE to be doing something with their arm, shoulder or torso to get that disc from the farthest reach back point TO their center/right pec area, which then allows them to just destroy the disc out from all the leverage that is being created. These two photos of Eagle are a prime example of what I’m talking about. HOW does he get the disc to his chest from the reachback? I think if I can figure out this part of the equation, I will start throwing way farther very quickly and all the other parts of the swing will just make that part better. But I just can’t figure this part out and need help.

If your shoulders are properly loaded at the top of the backswing(door frame drill) with a wide upper arm, then basically all you need to do is bend the elbow as everything automatically unwinds forward.
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