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Old 07-17-2018, 08:43 PM
UhhNegative UhhNegative is offline
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Originally Posted by slowplastic View Post
The whole spine shifting, swinging, and rotating makes everything so much more complicated than I really thought the throw was going to be, even a few months ago.
It makes me wonder how the pros initially developed their form. They never seem to really talk about it, or at least I don't hear about it much. I know Eagle did some self video and form work really early on. But at a certain point I think a lot of those guy just learned through trial and error and just throwing A LOT. I look back to when I was throwing left handed and while my form was pretty bad, I was still getting 350' distance accurately just from dialing in my inefficient form. And depending on your goals, if you want to compete well in, say, Advanced, all you really need is a dependable 400' golf shot which I think is achievable with less than optimal form.
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  #772  
Old 07-18-2018, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by UhhNegative View Post
It makes me wonder how the pros initially developed their form. They never seem to really talk about it, or at least I don't hear about it much. I know Eagle did some self video and form work really early on.
Got a source on that? I'd love to see that.

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Originally Posted by UhhNegative View Post
And depending on your goals, if you want to compete well in, say, Advanced, all you really need is a dependable 400' golf shot which I think is achievable with less than optimal form.
My goal from the beginning of this thread was and still is 450' power with 425' on golf lines. We all know bad form is going to cap out at a certain point. I think most pros either grew up throwing discs (simon and eagle) or have an athletic background where weight shift and hip rotation already makes sense to them (McBeth and Kevin Jones).
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  #773  
Old 07-19-2018, 12:45 AM
UhhNegative UhhNegative is offline
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Got a source on that? I'd love to see that.
Oh boy, I don't really remember. It was an earlier video of his, I believe on his channel. Maybe like an AMA type video? There wasn't much more than what I said in my post.
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  #774  
Old 07-19-2018, 01:45 AM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Originally Posted by billyjacko View Post
I'm trying to fucus on getting the hips turned back more, and attempting to lead with the weight of my butt (not as successful.) I also did some x-steps with a sledge, and I could get a nice connected feeling with the disc up high with no pump if I heald the head of the hammer like a loaf of bread with the off hand and let it go into the backswing as my upward momentum from the hop allowed me to turn back against it and have a good connection with the hammer into the plant and weight shift. I'm trying to replicate it here, but it still needs work. Don't mind the wonky off arm, it's the first thing to go when I start working on other things.
Agree with SP. You are still trying use a fake x-factor in the backswing by cranking your rear arm. Your shoulders are incredibly far turned back, but you hips ain't turning back. Your hips need to turn your shoulders/arm back in backswing. One piece take away, sequenced so the hips move everything back together. And the result is your front foot is planting too far ahead of you as you off balance and out of sequence.

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Old 07-19-2018, 03:19 AM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Originally Posted by UhhNegative View Post
It makes me wonder how the pros initially developed their form. They never seem to really talk about it, or at least I don't hear about it much. I know Eagle did some self video and form work really early on. But at a certain point I think a lot of those guy just learned through trial and error and just throwing A LOT. I look back to when I was throwing left handed and while my form was pretty bad, I was still getting 350' distance accurately just from dialing in my inefficient form. And depending on your goals, if you want to compete well in, say, Advanced, all you really need is a dependable 400' golf shot which I think is achievable with less than optimal form.
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Originally Posted by billyjacko View Post
Got a source on that? I'd love to see that.

My goal from the beginning of this thread was and still is 450' power with 425' on golf lines. We all know bad form is going to cap out at a certain point. I think most pros either grew up throwing discs (simon and eagle) or have an athletic background where weight shift and hip rotation already makes sense to them (McBeth and Kevin Jones).
Pretty sure McBeth still analyzes his own form and studies others. Christian Sandstrom, David Wiggins, Avery Jenkins, Erin Hemmings, Feldberg, Paul Ulibarri, Dustin Keegan all do.

Ken Jarvis said all he focused on was making his swing as effortless as possible. He made video not to long ago for himself to analyze. Same with his twin brother Marc.

I think the true naturals like Bubba Watson are few and far between. Lizotte probably doesn't analyze himself, but pretty sure his dad taught him when he was really young.

The vast majority of the top throwers started young and have a lot of experience and analysis. Aviar Jenkins is 3 years old, and already has better technique than most, the world better watch out in 15 years if he can putt.
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  #776  
Old 07-19-2018, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
Pretty sure McBeth still analyzes his own form and studies others. Christian Sandstrom, David Wiggins, Avery Jenkins, Erin Hemmings, Feldberg, Paul Ulibarri, Dustin Keegan all do.
I didn't mean to imply that pros don't work on their form. All of those dudes have put in the time, but there's a reason that some guys are head and shoulders above the rest in terms of distance and control. Throw in James Conrad in the discussion of people who have been throwing forever. Or Big Jerm having an elite forehand and just a decent backhand (I'm sure that comes from throwing a ball with good hip rotation.) Most of us growing up playing sports had untrained coaches teaching us to strong arm everything. Trying to unlearn those ingrained habits is HAARDD.
I did find this video of Eagle doing field work.


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Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
Agree with SP. You are still trying use a fake x-factor in the backswing by cranking your rear arm. Your shoulders are incredibly far turned back, but you hips ain't turning back. Your hips need to turn your shoulders/arm back in backswing. One piece take away, sequenced so the hips move everything back together. And the result is your front foot is planting too far ahead of you as you off balance and out of sequence.
Yeah, the off arm stuff is something that seems to go completely out of control as soon as I don't think about it (usually when I'm trying something different.) As for leading the backswing with the hips, I've obviously been struggling with this concept. When I started to try and learn to shift from behind, I got in my head that the sequence was turn your throwing shoulder back and the plant heal will go up in turn. I should think of it as turn the lower spine with the hips (you can't do this without pronating the plant foot due to inward hip rotation) and the shoulders will turn back as a byproduct. I've been really working on the door frame and trying to get that feeling of hanging from the socket with the rear hip. Concentrating on rotating the lower spine with the hips rather than just trying to turn the hips seems to help me get that feeling sitting my weight down being bent at the waist rather than leaning over.

Here's a quicky from this morning with a one step. I'm opening the front hip a bit into the plant, but the rotation in the backswing look more natural/less forced. Also, still not really getting the butt wipe/clearing of the front hip which seems more illusive to me than ever. Do you think I should have my rear foot angled more away from the target to help get more rear hip rotation? I'm not sure how I can turn that hip back further without spinning out the rear side.
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Old 07-20-2018, 01:27 AM
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Rear foot angle looks fine, but your foot pressure looks rolled over to outside edge and too much heel and balance/posture are not in check and the rear foot is spinning out and not countering behind you to the right tee side, doesn't look like you are loading/pushing your heel/weight forward from inside edge of instep. You are collapsing posture in backswing like a lawnchair folding up. Looks like you are too far away from the wall in Buttwipe, rear foot heel should only be an inch or two away from wall, you appear to be like 6-12" away and seated in a chair instead of ready to squat a bunch of weight.

Note how centered I am on my rear toes, my center of gravity and spine is stacked and everything is nice and centered right over it(backswing should be centered over rear foot), and note how closed my front hip is striding forward and rear arm is in front of shoulder, and also my arm/disc is Inside Swing Drill.

Note how your head and spine are folded over front foot instead of upright stacked on rear foot, and hand/disc is not Inside Swing Drill, and your rear arm is cranked back behind your shoulder. Buttwipe and Inside Swing Drill should center your balance/posture upright, like you have walls on both sides of you like a tight hallway that squeezes you more upright and centered. I'd throw from the Open to Closed Drill in Crush the Can like Lizotte.

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  #778  
Old 07-20-2018, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
Note how centered I am on my rear toes, my center of gravity and spine is stacked and everything is nice and centered right over it(backswing should be centered over rear foot), and note how closed my front hip is striding forward and rear arm is in front of shoulder, and also my arm/disc is Inside Swing Drill.

Note how your head and spine are folded over front foot instead of upright stacked on rear foot, and hand/disc is not Inside Swing Drill, and your rear arm is cranked back behind your shoulder. Buttwipe and Inside Swing Drill should center your balance/posture upright, like you have walls on both sides of you like a tight hallway that squeezes you more upright and centered.
I'm surprised I haven't noticed this, but your 100% right. I've guess I've been focusing so much on having everything be stacked over the front toes in the fallow through, I haven't been mirroring it in the backswing (forgetting about the tilted spiral.)
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Old 07-21-2018, 12:04 PM
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After a really good day on the course, I wanted to throw one of these in here for old time sake. I was really focusing on timing/sequence of the lower body, and not jacking back the shoulders so far (this helped a ton feeling the weight of the disc and upper body swinging through). I'm trying to make crush the can, swivel chair, and the weight shift all happen the instant when the toes touch/top of the reach back, and delaying the pull (letting the disc come to me.) It looks pretty promising to me, and I was seeing a huge effect on my lower power (40-60%) shots where the disc was still ejecting with a ton of heat. Also, long high hyzers continue to get easier to throw. There's definitely still some wonk in my balance (looks like it gets thrown off in the hop/crossover) and I'm not getting my weight forward enough.

Here's the same thing from late December
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  #780  
Old 07-21-2018, 12:23 PM
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