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View Poll Results: Which of these best describes Hole 18 at the Utah Open?
A par 2 where 38% of throws are errors, and 1% of throws are hero throws. 6 25.00%
A par 3 where 24% of throws are errors, and 33% of throws are hero throws. 16 66.67%
A par 4 where 16% of throws are hero throws, and 23% are double heroes. 1 4.17%
A par 5 where 37% of throws are hero throws, and 21% are double heroes. 0 0%
A par 6 where 16% of throws are hero throws, and 62% are double heroes. 1 4.17%
Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll

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  #831  
Old 05-16-2017, 03:31 PM
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Doofenshmirtz Doofenshmirtz is offline
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Originally Posted by lyleoross View Post
Please don't write "our game is easier." It isn't. Yep, right now our courses play easier, but that's resources and time.
I think you are talking about something completely different. That, or you are delusional. Real Golf is far more difficult than disc golf. This has nothing to do with course design. The inherent difficulty of real Golf is in the difficulty of just hitting the ball. Just coordinating contact between the clubface and the ball is a barrier to entry that prevents many people from ever moving past the "I tried to hit a golf ball and couldn't stage." Anyone without a physical handicap that doesn't prevent them from throwing a disc can play disc golf.

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Originally Posted by lyleoross View Post
Nice post. Rgolf isn't harder, it's designed to be as hard as it is. Dgolf is designed to be easier.
So real Golf isn't harder, it's just that disc golf is easier? I'm going to have to pick "delusional."
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  #832  
Old 05-16-2017, 03:54 PM
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Yeah, as an avid golfer and avid disc golfer, golf is so much more challenging as a sport. Improving distance, accuracy, putting, etc. is all much more difficult with golf. Anyone who says otherwise is either delusional, or hasn't played both.
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  #833  
Old 05-16-2017, 03:59 PM
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Disc golf can be more challenging per 100 feet of distance than ball golf. However, since ball golf is about 3 times longer and includes an additional projectile skill (putting), it wins the total challenge of the two.
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  #834  
Old 05-16-2017, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doofenshmirtz View Post
I think you are talking about something completely different. That, or you are delusional. Real Golf is far more difficult than disc golf. This has nothing to do with course design. The inherent difficulty of real Golf is in the difficulty of just hitting the ball. Just coordinating contact between the clubface and the ball is a barrier to entry that prevents many people from ever moving past the "I tried to hit a golf ball and couldn't stage." Anyone without a physical handicap that doesn't prevent them from throwing a disc can play disc golf.



So real Golf isn't harder, it's just that disc golf is easier? I'm going to have to pick "delusional."
De, de, definitely delusional.

Let's play which is harder. Hitting a ball with a stick or throwing a disc down a six foot wide corridor for 200 feet. Hitting a ball with a stick or throwing a disc down a five foot wide corridor for 200 feet. Hitting a ball with a stick or throwing a disc down a four foot wide corridor for 200 feet.

I can go at this all day.

You can narrow the parameters on any sport to make it more or less difficult. The distance from the pitching mound to home plate and the height of the mound have been modified many times to find the optimal balance to create a battle between the hitter and the pitcher, as opposed to a hit or pitch fest.

Disc golf is now in this position. We can balance course and hole structure to raise or lower difficulty to the level we want. Is it practical to do that in a planned way right now? Nope. But it's happening anyway in tournaments all over, as TDs and designers modify and tweak their courses.

So yes, inherently, hitting a ball with a stick is harder than throwing a disc. And if that were the only parameter, the only measure of difficulty, you'd be correct. But it isn't. Rgolf doesn't say, "okay, if you hit that ball with the stick, you've scored. The player with the most hits wins." They add in all kinds of things, doglegs, putting greens - fast and sloped, distance etc. Those things are added to bring a different level of control to the hit ball with stick idea.

So, throwing that disc tis easy. Therefore, to add difficulty, we need to tweak other things. Can you balance those other things against stick contact with ball? Yep. Can you inherently make ball golf harder than disc golf if you toughen everything up? Yep. Stick on ball is harder. But they don't do that. They are balancing difficulty to make the sport interesting for players and fans. We don't need to make other non-throwing things so hard that only a Paul or Ricky can succeed either. But not acknowledging that the difficulty can be modified to any level we want is....
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  #835  
Old 05-16-2017, 04:33 PM
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I want to add in one thing. Going out and playing on one of our current courses and saying it's easier than ball golf is a bad comparison. Our courses are easy. Even the tough ones. We only start coming close at USDGC where they've really cut down options, forced the players to make specific throws, and done so somewhat rigorously. You're essentially comparing what are pitch and putt courses with a rgolf major. That's not a good comparison.

If the reply is no one can ever make every throw down a long narrow corridor. I'm gonna disagree. Players do it, and frequently. Of course if your measure is perfection, well, you're right. But I'd like to discuss the meaning of delusional in that case. The first guy who played rgolf didn't go out and plow it three hundred yards, and chip it in with back spin onto a sloped green. Those skill sets in the sport as a whole grew over time. Even with a well-established sport like rgolf, Tiger was a revelation. He established new skill norms that required a rethink. Paul and Ricky are doing the same, IMO.
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  #836  
Old 05-16-2017, 04:57 PM
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I don't think you understand what I mean. Remove everything else and leave the mechanics for both. Hitting a small ball with a long stick far, accurate, and on the line you want is much more difficult than throwing a disc. There really is no comparison. You can make either sport as "challenging" as you want. Those are just outside factors that have nothing to do with the mechanics of the shot.
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  #837  
Old 05-16-2017, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lyleoross View Post
Let's play which is harder. Hitting a ball with a stick or throwing a disc down a six foot wide corridor for 200 feet. Hitting a ball with a stick or throwing a disc down a five foot wide corridor for 200 feet. Hitting a ball with a stick or throwing a disc down a four foot wide corridor for 200 feet.

I can go at this all day.
Straw man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lyleoross View Post
You can narrow the parameters on any sport to make it more or less difficult. The distance from the pitching mound to home plate and the height of the mound have been modified many times to find the optimal balance to create a battle between the hitter and the pitcher, as opposed to a hit or pitch fest.
What does that have to do with anything? If a basketball hoop was 30 feet off the ground instead of 10 it would be harder to make baskets, but that is not relevant to the assertion being made either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lyleoross View Post
So yes, inherently, hitting a ball with a stick is harder than throwing a disc. And if that were the only parameter, the only measure of difficulty, you'd be correct. But it isn't. Rgolf doesn't say, "okay, if you hit that ball with the stick, you've scored. The player with the most hits wins." They add in all kinds of things, doglegs, putting greens - fast and sloped, distance etc. Those things are added to bring a different level of control to the hit ball with stick idea.

So, throwing that disc is easy. Therefore, to add difficulty, we need to tweak other things. Can you balance those other things against stick contact with ball? Yep. Can you inherently make ball golf harder than disc golf if you toughen everything up? Yep. Stick on ball is harder. But they don't do that. They are balancing difficulty to make the sport interesting for players and fans. We don't need to make other non-throwing things so hard that only a Paul or Ricky can succeed either. But not acknowledging that the difficulty can be modified to any level we want is....
I don't see anyone claiming that disc golf can't be made harder by doing the things that are currently being done - adding length, hazards, and so forth. The assertion is that ball golf is inherently a more difficult game to master than disc golf. Do you disagree?

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  #838  
Old 05-16-2017, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gdub58 View Post
Do you disagree?
A more appropriate question may be:

Have you ever played golf?

Seems like most everyone who's played both agrees golf is the more difficult of the two (myself included).
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  #839  
Old 05-16-2017, 11:39 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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The point is......

No matter whether ball golf is harder than disc golf, or whether disc golf becomes harder in the future, the definition of par for disc golf is such that it will always produce pars that reflect the actual difficulty, because it is based on what an expert would expect.

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  #840  
Old 05-17-2017, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roggenb3 View Post
A more appropriate question may be:

Have you ever played golf?

Seems like most everyone who's played both agrees golf is the more difficult of the two (myself included).
Yeah, it becomes readily apparent that those that claim disc golf is more difficult have no experience with one of the sports and, therefore, don't know what they are talking about. But they also aren't concerned with the truth of what they are saying so much as the supposed effect of saying it. I had to laugh at "additional projectile skill" comment: it's stated as if there were no difference between hitting a golf ball of the tee, or off the ground or out of a bunker. There's just hitting a ball for distance and putting.
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