#571  
Old 01-19-2020, 11:50 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Originally Posted by Parbequeue View Post
I just realized on the inside out swing, you say tilt as you go over the toes to make room but THEN your shoulders come back to level- I’d never noticed that!

Then the forward swing is nice and wide?
The right shoulder should levitate upward to top of backswing - pendulum. The higher the right shoulder swings up the arm follows, and the longer the swing, and the more it should load the arm/lat upward through shoulder like dropping/lowering/loading the shoulder into arm slot in door frame drill.

Forward swing is inside-out or outside-inside-out/wide-narrow-wide.

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  #572  
Old 01-19-2020, 11:53 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Is there such thing as too much butt wipe pressure?
Yes, rear heel should only be 2-3" and front heel maybe 4-6" from wall.

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  #573  
Old 01-20-2020, 09:10 AM
deyo7 deyo7 is offline
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You’re right because I haven’t dropped the rear heel down in my backswing yet, I stay up on the toes the whole time. That’s why I asked about the heel coming down a few posts back. I need to learn how to shift ontop of the rear hip and have my heel down to brace against the backswing THEN make the move to the front side.
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Rear heel down will give you more stability/balance in the backswing. I recommend it for fully shifting back so everything mirrors back and forth completely.
And with that stability you can use the ground more as leverage




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Again, still messing around with the swing plane. When I do windmill drill the disc BOOOMS out like no tomorrow. I have trouble sometimes replicating it in the swing, particularly keeping a wide upper arm angle AND doing the pendulum swing plane, it feels really far away from the body to feel the weight/hit and then I end up leaning over too far left because that’s where I feel the most leverage. Just have to play around with it all I guess.
Parbeque, I can relate to what you're going through here.

For me, once I better nailed down the concept of the hip movement I felt that I was better able to mimic the force and late hit of that the pendulum creates in the windmill drill. For me it was easier to achieve the wide/narrow/wide in the forward swing after I worked on the hip movement and ingrained that into my mechanics.

Any of those videos in the "hips" thread are good and basically talk about the same thing in different ways. Here's some:

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This video below I found just awesome. I've been overexaggerating this and even leaning forward (targetward/toward apex) during the backswing. During my last round I really felt like I could eat a sandwich before swinging. You can set the disc in the backswing, leave it behind you, while making the forward move "from behind" you. Then it feels like you have all the time in the world to swing/apply the hit:

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Originally Posted by RFrance View Post
This looks like a good drill to get the feel for the weight shift before the top of the back swing. A lot of discussion about where the top of the back swing is and how early comparing Pro vs Am (particularly good between 3:00 to 4:00 minutes) but the Drill starts here https://youtu.be/ypfx-L8qz08?t=611.

I've also been manipulating the disc a little bit, which also seems to help the wide-narrow-wide thing, but I'm less confident in addressing that (Like SW highlighted a little in his videos in swing plane not flat thread)

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  #574  
Old 01-20-2020, 01:07 PM
Parbequeue Parbequeue is offline
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Deyo, that last video is so good. That’s been one of the things that’s been getting away from me, as I turn back/shift back to the rear hip/leg further I was losing that timing to get back to the front. I know SW has said it many times before “keep turning back as you shift forward” but that little drill conceptualizes it nicely for me. Thanks for that man!

In regards to swinging inside out, when I realized that my shoulders have to come back to level in the backswing (ie not collapsed posture) it feels a lot more in balance and stable, the bit about the shoulder rising back up was great SW thanks.

Like SW said mirror back and forth, I think I just need to commit more to being pulled up onto my rear leg and then play around with the shifting laterally toward target at the right (earliest?) time possible. I remember when I first figured this all out before Christmas it felt very tall on the rear hip/leg. Which would make sense for how the x step helps as you’re kind of setting yourself up on top of the hip ready to shift down into the brace. Am I on the right thought track?

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  #575  
Old 01-20-2020, 02:02 PM
UhhNegative UhhNegative is offline
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Like Mike on the AMG video says, the backswing and forward swing are kind of blended together. So if you initiate the forward swing with the plant foot crushing the can and you are not at peak reachback yet, the plant motion itself will pull your arm into full extension, leading to that rubber band feeling like Simon talks about. You just have to trust that the backswing will happen as you move forward into the plant.

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  #576  
Old 01-20-2020, 03:26 PM
deyo7 deyo7 is offline
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Originally Posted by Parbequeue View Post
You’re right because I haven’t dropped the rear heel down in my backswing yet, I stay up on the toes the whole time. That’s why I asked about the heel coming down a few posts back. I need to learn how to shift ontop of the rear hip and have my heel down to brace against the backswing THEN make the move to the front side.
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Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
Rear heel down will give you more stability/balance in the backswing. I recommend it for fully shifting back so everything mirrors back and forth completely.
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Originally Posted by Parbequeue View Post
Hosted the clinic today, it went really well! Feels great to teach people about the sport. A very wholesome experience.

Temps here have gone from -36c to -2 in one day so I drove past one of the courses on the way home to film a few shots. I think my posture looks way better in this. I still have issues coming over the top that I think are related to not striding enough, like I’m a planting on top of my foot instead of bracingg up on the instep. But you can see the teepads right now haha.

Again, still messing around with the swing plane. When I do windmill drill the disc BOOOMS out like no tomorrow. I have trouble sometimes replicating it in the swing, particularly keeping a wide upper arm angle AND doing the pendulum swing plane, it feels really far away from the body to feel the weight/hit and then I end up leaning over too far left because that’s where I feel the most leverage. Just have to play around with it all I guess.

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Originally Posted by Parbequeue View Post
Deyo, that last video is so good. That’s been one of the things that’s been getting away from me, as I turn back/shift back to the rear hip/leg further I was losing that timing to get back to the front. I know SW has said it many times before “keep turning back as you shift forward” but that little drill conceptualizes it nicely for me. Thanks for that man!

In regards to swinging inside out, when I realized that my shoulders have to come back to level in the backswing (ie not collapsed posture) it feels a lot more in balance and stable, the bit about the shoulder rising back up was great SW thanks.

Like SW said mirror back and forth, I think I just need to commit more to being pulled up onto my rear leg and then play around with the shifting laterally toward target at the right (earliest?) time possible. I remember when I first figured this all out before Christmas it felt very tall on the rear hip/leg. Which would make sense for how the x step helps as you’re kind of setting yourself up on top of the hip ready to shift down into the brace. Am I on the right thought track?
Thank RFrance for finding and posting it. So good. I know what you mean, I'm not sure if it's advisable but I feel like overexaggerating learning spine forward/targetward as in like this / during backswing helps with this. I figure I can bring it back to normal as I get used to shifting from behind better... I just feel that it's currently helping me shift onto front side properly and then your spine naturally switches to \ as you brace in forward swing.

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Originally Posted by UhhNegative View Post
Like Mike on the AMG video says, the backswing and forward swing are kind of blended together. So if you initiate the forward swing with the plant foot crushing the can and you are not at peak reachback yet, the plant motion itself will pull your arm into full extension, leading to that rubber band feeling like Simon talks about. You just have to trust that the backswing will happen as you move forward into the plant.
Blended together - I think that's a good way of looking at it. And yes, it's that equal and opposite movements. You're going forward/targetward with your rear cheek while simultaneously leaving the disc behind you. This movement automatically creates the extension of the arm, it's not that you are reaching back... it's that you are leaving disc behind as you shift onto your front leg from behind, which creates that extension. I'm saying the same thing just slightly different since we all have different ways of learning/that clicks.

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  #577  
Old 01-20-2020, 07:06 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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Thank RFrance for finding and posting it. So good. I know what you mean, I'm not sure if it's advisable but I feel like overexaggerating learning spine forward/targetward as in like this / during backswing helps with this. I figure I can bring it back to normal as I get used to shifting from behind better... I just feel that it's currently helping me shift onto front side properly and then your spine naturally switches to \ as you brace in forward swing.



Blended together - I think that's a good way of looking at it. And yes, it's that equal and opposite movements. You're going forward/targetward with your rear cheek while simultaneously leaving the disc behind you. This movement automatically creates the extension of the arm, it's not that you are reaching back... it's that you are leaving disc behind as you shift onto your front leg from behind, which creates that extension. I'm saying the same thing just slightly different since we all have different ways of learning/that clicks.

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  #578  
Old 01-20-2020, 07:12 PM
Parbequeue Parbequeue is offline
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Could this be used for one step too?

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  #579  
Old 01-20-2020, 07:13 PM
RFrance RFrance is online now
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...I'm not sure if it's advisable but I feel like overexaggerating learning spine forward/targetward as in like this / during backswing helps with this. I figure I can bring it back to normal as I get used to shifting from behind better... I just feel that it's currently helping me shift onto front side properly and then your spine naturally switches to \ as you brace in forward swing.
The / and \ reminded me of this video of Mike Austin coaching Mike Dunaway on this using the hinged door analysis that both SC and SW talk about. It's about 4 minutes. The whole video is great and restates a lot of what is talked about in the Technique and Form Analysis forums.

https://youtu.be/k7FyCquJzII?t=1520

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  #580  
Old 01-20-2020, 07:17 PM
Parbequeue Parbequeue is offline
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Great finds and thanks for the timing video Rfrance! I’ll watch this one now. I does feel easier to get to the front side with the / when trying with an xstep at least.
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