#281  
Old 07-05-2017, 02:14 PM
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Olorin Olorin is offline
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Originally Posted by Noill Golf View Post
What does everyone think about a level designation for a course? Like a red level course or a gold level course. Should that be written in a review or checked off in a review or just listed on the course page..?)
I usually include my assessment of the course level in my reviews, and when I post my hole-by-hole ratings and review notes I include the course level there too. This is based on the Level Score Average minus Level CR Par. I do not claim that my course level designations are infallible, esp because of tweener courses that could go either way, but I think they are generally realistic. I mainly do this for my personal use, but I do hope this information can help others as well.
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  #282  
Old 07-05-2017, 03:41 PM
_MTL_ _MTL_ is offline
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So on one hand, everyone says everyone's review of the course should count the same, but then on the other hand, only skilled / seasoned players are capable of giving an idea of difficulty?

This seems like pretty much the exact same thing.
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  #283  
Old 07-05-2017, 03:43 PM
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I've never heard of a green level... even lower than red apparently... hmmm

Tim agrees with you... he'd rather take the stats and figure a level that way than have users designate in their reviews... his argument for this is sound and I agree.

This level designation would be most helpful in a sort... otherwise, you can pretty much figure out the level via reviews, SSE, hole lengths, and even to a degree the average rating.

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  #284  
Old 07-05-2017, 03:47 PM
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In my reviews, I often try to suggest what level a course seems to be geared toward. But only in general terms (...feels like a Rec to Int course...) In the 'other' section, I also have a sentence about my experience, so folks can take my info with a grain of salt. On the cusp of Intermediate skills, I've only got my perspective, but a player with 15 to 20 years' experience above, say a 950 rating might also have a hard time relating to the masses, as it were. I'm sometimes able to read between the lines about what level skills other reviewers have (especially when they refer to a course as "short" because all the holes are from 320 to 450 feet, for instance).

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  #285  
Old 07-05-2017, 04:06 PM
GMcAtee GMcAtee is offline
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Originally Posted by sisyphus View Post
In my reviews, I often try to suggest what level a course seems to be geared toward. But only in general terms (...feels like a Rec to Int course...) In the 'other' section, I also have a sentence about my experience, so folks can take my info with a grain of salt. On the cusp of Intermediate skills, I've only got my perspective, but a player with 15 to 20 years' experience above, say a 950 rating might also have a hard time relating to the masses, as it were. I'm sometimes able to read between the lines about what level skills other reviewers have (especially when they refer to a course as "short" because all the holes are from 320 to 450 feet, for instance).
I had the locals mad at me for labeling their courses Rec and the toughest Intermediate. My league scores can confirm my assessment.

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  #286  
Old 07-05-2017, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by _MTL_ View Post
So on one hand, everyone says everyone's review of the course should count the same, but then on the other hand, only skilled / seasoned players are capable of giving an idea of difficulty?

This seems like pretty much the exact same thing.
I know how much I like a course. I have a reasonable idea of how much many other players might like the same course---I could give a recommendation.

I'm less certain I can pin down a course to a particular skill level.

I don't see them as the same, at all.
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Old 07-05-2017, 04:48 PM
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While I agree with this 100%, it's interesting to see that you among others think that all reviews should count the same.

If you are going to one hand say "am players shouldn't decide difficulty" then you shouldn't on the other hand say "all reviews should be identical."

I will add, however, that difficulty is one of most mis-understood things in disc golf. Difficulty, IMHO, is the difference between Par and SSA, not simply what course par is.

A course with a par of 54 with an SSA of 50 is way more difficult than a course with a par of 62 and SSA of 54, even though scoring on the second course will be higher.
I don't see the two things as equatable. The difficulty level of a course is at its core objective. Yes different players will have differing opinions but if you get enough data on a course you could logically deduce how difficult it is per skill level.

A course review and rating is purely subjective if the reviewer is writing it honestly.

A low rated Am who has played and reviewed a lot courses may still not be able to grasp the difference between blue/gold because to them they're both just super hard. Just as it may be difficult for Wysocki to tell the difference between red/green... whatever colors are at the bottom.

If the perception is that I don't want more detail in reviews that's not what I'm saying. I break my reviews down in to classifications and I want reviews to be thoroughly hashed out. I'm just saying we should be encouraging people to do that in written form instead of assigning a bunch of number values that in no way correlate person to person.

Not to mention that if people are lazy enough to write a one line review why do you think they'll take the time to give these number ratings their due dilligence.

If you want to break down reviews that way just start doing it. i just think putting it up there will confuse more than it will help due to the nature of who is reviewing.

I'll also add that it does bother me sometimes that all reviews are weighted equally. Like when I see some idiot give Whipping Post a 1 and write one sentence. I just don't think the alternative makes more sense at this juncture.
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  #288  
Old 07-05-2017, 04:49 PM
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Review/rating != difficulty

For the record, ski trails are rated differently at each mountain. A black diamond run at one place could be a blue cruiser at another.
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  #289  
Old 07-05-2017, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noill Golf View Post
Tim agrees with you... he'd rather take the stats and figure a level that way than have users designate in their reviews... his argument for this is sound and I agree.

This level designation would be most helpful in a sort... otherwise, you can pretty much figure out the level via reviews, SSE, hole lengths, and even to a degree the average rating.
What stats? You would need access to a sizable amount of rounds by players of varying skill levels to make that determination and even if you could throw in all of the PDGAs round ratings you would still not have enough data for most of the courses.

You can not judge difficulty just on SSE.

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  #290  
Old 07-05-2017, 05:50 PM
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oh, was just giving the quick and dirty there... I don't think it's been concluded just how to do it yet. Start with an idea and work it out.

I think it's going to be a mix of information and testing to see how it lands... something like that.

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