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Old 10-26-2015, 02:21 AM
shimmishim shimmishim is offline
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Default Various Questions from a noob...

Hello! First post. Lots of great information in this forum.

I've been playing for 3 months now and I'm starting to understand how discs fly and why they do what they do and how throwing a faster speed discs (I like Innova discs) can be detrimental for a noob (like me) that can't achieve the required speeds needed to make the higher speed discs (like a boss or destroyer) fly like they need to.

I drive with a 175g DX sidewinder and have been able to get it to turn over most of the time (though there are occasions where it won't and just fade hard to the right - I'm a LHBH thrower). However, I've discovered that a speed 9 disc might be still a little too fast for me. I've come to the conclusion that I can throw a leopard (speed 6) farther than my sidewinder most of the time. So I've concluded that I'm not getting enough speed and can't seem to throw farther than about 200-210 feet on completely level ground.

I understand that throwing with your arm = bad and that form is important in getting more distance (especially by using more of your lower body [legs and hips). I'm trying hard not to throw with my arm and I know that I'm not as much as before since my shoulder and elbow are both hurting a lot less than it used to.

I've seen all the drill videos and trying to bring everything together can be hard at times. I just can't keep everything straight before I throw. I also have a tendency to release a little late which causes my discs to go way to the left.

So a couple of questions...

1. What's the best way to think about everything before you throw or is this something that just comes with playing a lot?

2. What drills should I focus on?

3. When a disc leaves your hand, will it leave ever so slightly hyzered and straighten out and turn over with enough speed or should it literally be perfectly leveled (horizontal with the ground) when it leaves your hand? A lot of the form videos show the disc leaving from behind or side but not from the front so it's hard to tell if a disc is leaving slightly hyzered.

If I feel brave enough, I'll post a video of my form. Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 10-26-2015, 08:40 AM
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NathanNoodleArm NathanNoodleArm is offline
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Head on over to heavydisc.com and check the form crash course. He also posts on here as HyzerUniBomber. That should keep you busy for a while.
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Old 10-26-2015, 08:56 AM
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mark996 mark996 is offline
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Watch slow motion drives, check out Will Shustericks video on driving form, his stand still practice tips helped me a ton with engaging my lower body and getting a good turn. I look at it as building a foundation first. Start with the simplest, most critical things, grip, reachback, pull through, follow through, and then build on that. I took out my x step now and went back to throwing from a stand still to make sure I'm getting the most out of what I've got. All fall/winter will be break down and rebuild.
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Old 10-26-2015, 12:34 PM
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Questatement Questatement is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmishim View Post
When a disc leaves your hand, will it leave ever so slightly hyzered and straighten out and turn over with enough speed or should it literally be perfectly leveled (horizontal with the ground) when it leaves your hand? A lot of the form videos show the disc leaving from behind or side but not from the front so it's hard to tell if a disc is leaving slightly hyzered.!
if you match release speed to disc speed, altering the wing angle is only going to alter the very early part of high speed travel (left to right) then the disc will 'correct' itself based on its inherent HSS combined with any effects from wind. Overpowering will add turn and under powering will reduce turn. Since some players power 'pocket' is naturally outer wing angle down (hyzer), they would choose a disc with a fraction less HSS or release slightly right (RHBH) of initial targeted flight to compensate for the altered early part of high speed flight over someone throwing the same line with a flat release.

This is why advanced players carry 20+ discs. You can only manipulate a laterally flying disc so much based on wing angle before you're asking the impossible of that disc.
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Old 10-29-2015, 11:29 PM
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Plastic Thunder Plastic Thunder is online now
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First Question.

I look at the line to the target and match a disc to the intended line. That comes from knowing flight patterns of the discs in my bag. I rarely try to force a disc to fly against it's pattern. Not that I don't do it, but in the beginning I found forcing disc to do thing got me into trouble.

Second Question.

Practice in a place that allows you to learn how to throw. An open field if you can, once you understand the discs in your bag head to the course and test your ability. You do not have to throw hard in the beginning, learn form as best you can and then add power as you improve.

As for putting, you really need a basket to get the proper feel. Start up close and build confidence, move further away as you improve.

Third question.

Depends on the disc, the line you chose and form. Most of my bag is a hyzer, because I am a backhanded lefty and many of my discs are under stable. I have a few that I let go dead level because they fly straight. Rollers I anhyzer, tomahawk or thumb depending on the situation. I have found that getting discs that minimizing the number of launch angles has made for more consistent throws.

The one thing you my wish to look at is disc weight. Here is where you may see your biggest improvement.

I started throwing heavy stuff which was not good for my situation. I now throw a lot of 150g stuff(Drivers) because it suits my playing style although I do have some stuff at 172g . My mids run from 166g to 180g depending on the disc. My putter are above 175g

This stuff worked for me, you may find differently as you progress along. Oh and if your buddies will let you test out their disc you may save yourself the frustration of buying things you don't throw very well.
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Old 10-30-2015, 12:25 AM
PWaggoner PWaggoner is offline
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1. What's the best way to think about everything before you throw or is this something that just comes with playing a lot?

Learn to play the highest percentage shot. Analyze the shot, choose the disc. Then just throw.

2. What drills should I focus on?

Check out all of SS22s vids. Save you some hassle, you'll have to watch them most likely anyways lol.

3. When a disc leaves your hand, will it leave ever so slightly hyzered and straighten out and turn over with enough speed or should it literally be perfectly leveled (horizontal with the ground) when it leaves your hand? A lot of the form videos show the disc leaving from behind or side but not from the front so it's hard to tell if a disc is leaving slightly hyzered.

Id say depends on how throwing it.

Blake t, old discgolfreview guru, i believe said when the disc pivots in your hand it'll come out slightly nose up and slightly anhyzer (so adjust). Id have to find the thread or article. Im sure someone else can confirm

Last edited by PWaggoner; 10-30-2015 at 12:27 AM.
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Old 10-31-2015, 12:25 AM
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Phil Esra Phil Esra is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmishim View Post
I've been playing for 3 months now
Me too--welcome!

Quote:
I drive with a 175g DX sidewinder and have been able to get it to turn over most of the time (though there are occasions where it won't and just fade hard to the right - I'm a LHBH thrower). However, I've discovered that a speed 9 disc might be still a little too fast for me. I've come to the conclusion that I can throw a leopard (speed 6) farther than my sidewinder most of the time. So I've concluded that I'm not getting enough speed and can't seem to throw farther than about 200-210 feet on completely level ground.
The form will come with practice, they say. I play to win (against my fellow noob buddies), and it's just fun to throw something far, so I have enjoyed throwing a 150g Mamba and some <130g DX drivers (Beast, Wraith) in addition to more noob-appropriate discs. It is a crooked road/slippery slope to start down, but it has made the process more fun, and ultimately there's a fun-ness threshold it needs to clear to keep me motivated. I have to admit, I have enjoyed buying a bunch of cheap discs too, and it's useful to have a big stack when practicing. The lightweight base-plastic drivers do seem to change their behavior much quicker than other categories of base-plastic discs and heavier base-plastic drivers.

Quote:
I'm trying hard not to throw with my arm and I know that I'm not as much as before since my shoulder and elbow are both hurting a lot less than it used to.
Some of this is just conditioning, too. Muscles you don't use for other stuff.

Quote:
I've seen all the drill videos and trying to bring everything together can be hard at times. I just can't keep everything straight before I throw. I also have a tendency to release a little late which causes my discs to go way to the left.
Ugh. I feel your pain. It can be tough around here sometimes, because the majority of frequent posters drank the koolaid a long time ago and are awfully good compared to a rookie. The collective borg brain sometimes forgets what it was like to suck this bad and be this lost. There are people who are really bummed/frustrated that they can only throw a distance that you can merely dream of. Nice people though!

Regarding the late release, Slowplastic recently pointed out to me that the front foot should be offset, so that you're facing slightly away from the target. If you're lining up with your feet in line with the target, it may seem like you're getting a late release, when you're really just pointing your body too far left. (LHBH is a pain in the ass too--you have to translate everything you read...)

Quote:
1. What's the best way to think about everything before you throw or is this something that just comes with playing a lot?
It's kind of a complex physical act, no? If you are not calm, you will choke. So whatever zen-master head-clearing you need to do to get to a calm, focused state, do it. I reliably choke when throwing in the presence of strangers who are better than me, or who I just assume are better than me. It's kind of a pain in the ass, but I figure once I get better at throwing in private I can worry about throwing in front of people. For now I just embrace the choke and move on to the recovery shot.

Quote:
2. What drills should I focus on?
Start simple! I have not figured out exactly what is wrong with my mind/body and why I have some fundamental flaws in my throw. I gave up on the x-step a while back, but there's still a little more going on than I can handle. Sidewinder, Slowplastic, and HyzerUniBomber have been very helpful critiquing form, but there are times when it can be a stretch to even understand the feedback, let alone address it.

Quote:
3. When a disc leaves your hand, will it leave ever so slightly hyzered and straighten out and turn over with enough speed or should it literally be perfectly leveled (horizontal with the ground) when it leaves your hand? A lot of the form videos show the disc leaving from behind or side but not from the front so it's hard to tell if a disc is leaving slightly hyzered.
I was very surprised to read Questatement's comment above about it only affecting the beginning of the flight. Maybe I'm throwing badly enough that I'm only getting the beginning of the flight. I find most of my discs very responsive to that hyzer/anhyzer angle of release. As I learn the behavior of the disc, I tinker with the release angle to get the flight I want. I often don't actually get the flight I want, but over many throws, the disc's response to the basic angle (hyzer/flat/anhyzer) tends to be pretty clear and predictable, I find. Nose up/nose down is trickier for me--I speculate that this is because it is powerfully affected by not just your grip but many other subtle components of your throw.

If you enjoy buying discs, get your hands on a cheap Pro-D Buzzz if you want a forgiving midrange disc. I have bashed the hell out of mine on my local tree-infested course, and it looks like a deflated chef's hat or some kind of soggy mushroom by now (visibly bent/warped), but it just keeps flying straight and low--also not very sensitive to how much power you put into it. I find it a beginner's dream. I don't think my score would suffer more than a couple of strokes if I used it as my only disc. For diagnosis and practice, everyone says the Comet will reveal form issues very well--I picture it as the anti-Buzzz, but have never thrown one.

:High five!: Someday LHBH beginners will rule the world, and all of this will be ours.
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Old 10-31-2015, 12:37 AM
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Phil Esra Phil Esra is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plastic Thunder View Post
Practice in a place that allows you to learn how to throw. An open field if you can, once you understand the discs in your bag head to the course and test your ability.
I mostly practice in an open area, but the course is useful too--those obstacles are much closer to the disc's line of flight than they look, I find. Turns out the very bottom of that one low branch is just barely in the way of your otherwise acceptable drive. Precision matters, and it's hard to judge precision without any landmarks.

Quote:
You do not have to throw hard in the beginning, learn form as best you can and then add power as you improve.
TRUE.

Quote:
As for putting, you really need a basket to get the proper feel. Start up close and build confidence, move further away as you improve.
I would say that, if you're as bad a putter as me, you don't need a basket yet. If you miss completely, it doesn't really matter what you're throwing at. The practice will be helpful regardless. A basket is way more fun than anything else though.
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Old 10-31-2015, 09:13 AM
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Questatement Questatement is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Esra View Post
I was very surprised to read Questatement's comment above about it only affecting the beginning of the flight.
I didn't cover every possibility, just the general dynamics of discs ranging from very OS to slightly stable.

For instance, a very understable disc won't even fly if released outer wing up and/or flat... it will roll but if that same disc were released outer wing down (even near vertical) it will flip to flat and maybe even have a touch of fade at the end. In this case, it affects 'flight' from start to finish.
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Old 10-31-2015, 11:12 PM
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Phil Esra Phil Esra is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Questatement View Post
I didn't cover every possibility, just the general dynamics of discs ranging from very OS to slightly stable.

For instance, a very understable disc won't even fly if released outer wing up and/or flat... it will roll but if that same disc were released outer wing down (even near vertical) it will flip to flat and maybe even have a touch of fade at the end. In this case, it affects 'flight' from start to finish.
Ah, got it, makes sense.
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