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View Poll Results: Which of these best describes Hole 18 at the Utah Open?
A par 2 where 38% of throws are errors, and 1% of throws are hero throws. 6 25.00%
A par 3 where 24% of throws are errors, and 33% of throws are hero throws. 16 66.67%
A par 4 where 16% of throws are hero throws, and 23% are double heroes. 1 4.17%
A par 5 where 37% of throws are hero throws, and 21% are double heroes. 0 0%
A par 6 where 16% of throws are hero throws, and 62% are double heroes. 1 4.17%
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  #2071  
Old 12-13-2017, 09:58 PM
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sidewinder22 sidewinder22 is offline
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We should just change Par to the Birdie stroke system if we are really going to use "Par 2". Expert disc golfers are always expected to birdie holes as we don't have the equivalent of 2 putts from the green. Seems silly to have holes where the only way to birdie a hole are with an ace. The OG ball golf stroke system was actually the Bogey stroke system. http://www.scottishgolfhistory.org/o...f-terms/bogey/
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  #2072  
Old 12-13-2017, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidSauls View Post
Of course it means a Par 2. If an expert would be expected to get a 2, that's not a "birdie" or die....it's par. Per the definition.

Or will be in 19 days.

Whether it's a good hole or appropriate for top pros in top events is a different argument. If it's there, it is one.
Then why not just say, "TDs can make par whatever they deem reasonable, between 2 and 5." I thought the whole point of this rule update was to make things less ambiguous. "Errorless play" to me means they threw it in the basket on the first shot.

Oh and what hand does the "Expert" throw with? I know plenty of lefties that can get 2s on holes a righty would have trouble with and vice versa.
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  #2073  
Old 12-13-2017, 10:47 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
We should just change Par to the Birdie stroke system if we are really going to use "Par 2". Expert disc golfers are always expected to birdie holes as we don't have the equivalent of 2 putts from the green. Seems silly to have holes where the only way to birdie a hole are with an ace. The OG ball golf stroke system was actually the Bogey stroke system. http://www.scottishgolfhistory.org/o...f-terms/bogey/
No. By definition, Expert disc golfers are always expected to par holes. Look it up, it's in the rules.

Seems sillier (to me) to have holes where the only way to par a hole is with a bad score.

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  #2074  
Old 12-13-2017, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by brutalbrutus View Post
Then why not just say, "TDs can make par whatever they deem reasonable, between 2 and 5." I thought the whole point of this rule update was to make things less ambiguous. "Errorless play" to me means they threw it in the basket on the first shot.

Oh and what hand does the "Expert" throw with? I know plenty of lefties that can get 2s on holes a righty would have trouble with and vice versa.
Nothing says they can't use 1 or 6 or higher.

"Experts" can throw BH and FH, or have a wicked turnover.
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  #2075  
Old 12-13-2017, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve West View Post
No. By definition, Expert disc golfers are always expected to par holes. Look it up, it's in the rules.

Seems sillier (to me) to have holes where the only way to par a hole is with a bad score.
Horse hockey. You must be talking about some really dinky holes if there is no scoring separation above and below "par".

In ball golf, par is determined by the reasonably expected number of strokes for an accomplished golfer to get to the green plus 2 putts. In disc golf our accomplished players just putt on easier greens and have better motor control without having to interface with a club.

The only thing that "par 2" really does other than inflating birdie is help out players that miss holes in tournaments.
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  #2076  
Old 12-13-2017, 11:48 PM
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Are you trying to get this done just for tourneys, or is this a thing you want for all courses? I just don't understand why you want to take the fun out of the game. It is fun to get birdies.
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  #2077  
Old 12-14-2017, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sidewinder22 View Post
We should just change Par to the Birdie stroke system if we are really going to use "Par 2". Expert disc golfers are always expected to birdie holes as we don't have the equivalent of 2 putts from the green. Seems silly to have holes where the only way to birdie a hole are with an ace. The OG ball golf stroke system was actually the Bogey stroke system. http://www.scottishgolfhistory.org/o...f-terms/bogey/

Why not just use the rule to set par correctly, and tell TDs at NTs and Majors that par 2 reflects badly on the sport?

If you have a dead fish, and it smells like a dead fish, calling it a rose doesn't change anything.
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  #2078  
Old 12-14-2017, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brutalbrutus View Post
Are you trying to get this done just for tourneys, or is this a thing you want for all courses? I just don't understand why you want to take the fun out of the game. It is fun to get birdies.

The discussion has always centered around big events. If birdies are fun, why not bump up par by one stroke a hole? Eagles are way more fun. Even better, bump it up two strokes. I would like an albatross for Xmas.

Last, if the way we define fun is the number of birdies we get, I wanna know what golfers are smoking? They get way fewer birdies and yet they seem to enjoy the game quite a bit.
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  #2079  
Old 12-14-2017, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by lyleoross View Post
The discussion has always centered around big events. If birdies are fun, why not bump up par by one stroke a hole? Eagles are way more fun. Even better, bump it up two strokes. I would like an albatross for Xmas.

Last, if the way we define fun is the number of birdies we get, I wanna know what golfers are smoking? They get way fewer birdies and yet they seem to enjoy the game quite a bit.
Then by all means, go get an albatross. Don't restrict another person ability to get one. If golfers had a 24in wide hole to putt at, I am sure they would get more birdies...

It's not like I don't agree that par is not set right on a lot of courses. But 2 is not a number that should be considered when setting par and no fancy math or graphs is ever gonna change my mind about that.

Last edited by brutalbrutus; 12-14-2017 at 09:37 AM.
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  #2080  
Old 12-14-2017, 09:40 AM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brutalbrutus View Post
Are you trying to get this done just for tourneys, or is this a thing you want for all courses? I just don't understand why you want to take the fun out of the game. It is fun to get birdies.
If you get a score that does not move you up in the rankings, is that score really a birdie? If you get a par that moves you down in the rankings, is that really a par?

Anyway, don't worry. Properly set par will not take away all birdies. Most existing birdies will still be birdies.

Real par 2s aren't really that common. A hole can have more than half 2s and still be a par 3.

Most of the false birdies that would go away would be from fairly open holes that are in the range of 350 to 550 feet. When an expert is looking at a basket 450 feet away, are they happy with a 4? Do they think they've gotten an advantage by getting the same 3 as their peers? Does taking away that false birdie really bother anybody, or does the extra credibility make all the real birdies feel better?

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