Balled up Disc

[Broken Shoulder]

I think you have to make all your throws yourself in a tournament. You can't have your friend executing your tap-ins.

Sorry.

[jchoate7]

I mean we were screwing around a bit and throwing it about 10 ft max. And for those of you saying I can't have a friend tap in, that was never the question.

[Broken Shoulder]

Originally Posted by jchoate7

I mean we were screwing around a bit and throwing it about 10 ft max. And for those of you saying I can't have a friend tap in, that was never the question.

I know. It was sarcastic.
(That's why I apologized at the end.) Probably should have used a smiley.

[BogeyNoMore]

Bet this technique would work just as well with a Blowfly or Gum Putt

Todays PSA: It's the interwebz, folks - tone of voice doesn't come across. Therefore attempts at sarcasm can't be subtle, or they'll likely be missed because the reader has little context to frame your response.

[Broken Shoulder]

I'll do better next time.

[robdeforge]

Apologies for the necro bump, but I figured it would be better than creating a new thread.

Seems like wadding up a disc would definitely alter the flight characteristics. I also don't see anything in the rules about flight modification needing to be permanent to be illegal. As far as I can see, rolling a blowfly up into a ball and throwing it would be illegal while throwing it once it has returned to its original shape would not be illegal.

[The Shide]

Saw Matt Bell ball up a Blowfly in a tournament video this past season. Gotta believe it's still legal. It's not permanent altering of a disc.

[robdeforge]

Originally Posted by The Shide

Saw Matt Bell ball up a Blowfly in a tournament video this past season. Gotta believe it's still legal.

I've seen him do it as well, and it's part of the reason I'm making this post. Just because a player does something and doesn't get called on it doesn't mean it's legal

It's not permanent altering of a disc.

"Other modifications to a disc after production make the disc illegal, including but not limited to:
Modifying the disc in a way that alters its original flight characteristics;"

There's no mention of the modifications needing to be permanent to be illegal in the rules that I can find. In a reddit post from 6 months ago here, a user comments that "Temporarily modified is temporarily illegal. The PDGA responded to questions sent in about this very putt." that to me makes the most sense, but I don't see any proof about the PDGA's response

[BillFleming]

Per 813.01 Illegal Disc and all the rules they give about it, bending/folding/balling up a disc does not meet the requirement of 'modification' that is intended by the rule. The exception is if that causes the disc to be permanently 'modified'. In the case of the "taco" throw by Matt Bell, the disc returns to its regular shape, so it isn't permanent. Yes, the rules don't specifically say the modification has to be permanent.

I don't recall seeing a Q&A about this and I've never heard anyone "call out" Matt Bell over his putting style. Unlike timing issues or stance violations...this one is pretty obvious....so I would have expected him to be called out over it if it was illegal.

I'd be curious to hear what the Rules Gurus on this forum have to say.

[robdeforge]

Originally Posted by BillFleming

Per 813.01 Illegal Disc and all the rules they give about it, bending/folding/balling up a disc does not meet the requirement of 'modification' that is intended by the rule.

Where do you see that bending/folding/balling up is OK in 13.01? Or is this something that you're inferring? They're not explicitly listed as illegal modifications, but the examples of illegal disc modifications listed are "including but not limited to:..."

The exception is if that causes the disc to be permanently 'modified'. In the case of the "taco" throw by Matt Bell, the disc returns to its regular shape, so it isn't permanent. Yes, the rules don't specifically say the modification has to be permanent.

I don't recall seeing a Q&A about this and I've never heard anyone "call out" Matt Bell over his putting style. Unlike timing issues or stance violations...this one is pretty obvious....so I would have expected him to be called out over it if it was illegal.

I'd be curious to hear what the Rules Gurus on this forum have to say.

Also curious to see what the Rules Gurus say. Chuck said legal previously in this thread, but that was back in 2014.

I also really don't think that we can use the "other players haven't called him on it, so it is probably legal" as a convincing argument. The pros don't know all the rules, and they don't care to enforce some of the rules that they do know