#21  
Old 01-26-2022, 03:03 PM
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The throw in question:
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Last edited by flatflip; 01-26-2022 at 03:05 PM.
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  #22  
Old 01-26-2022, 03:55 PM
Steve West Steve West is offline
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This question has been sent in to the RC several times. The answer is always: illegal, for violating

Quote:
813.01 Illegal Disc
Last updated: Friday, December 31, 2021 - 20:39
C. Other modifications to a disc after production make the disc illegal, including but not limited to:
1. Modifying the disc in a way that alters its original flight characteristics;
It is really hard to argue that modifying a disc so it flies like a ball is somehow NOT modifying the disc in a way that alters its original flight characteristics.

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  #23  
Old 01-26-2022, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve West View Post
This question has been sent in to the RC several times. The answer is always: illegal, for violating



It is really hard to argue that modifying a disc so it flies like a ball is somehow NOT modifying the disc in a way that alters its original flight characteristics.
but it has those characteristics from the beginning, it's just a different grip.
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  #24  
Old 01-26-2022, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robdeforge View Post
Also curious to see what the Rules Gurus say. Chuck said legal previously in this thread, but that was back in 2014.

I also really don't think that we can use the "other players haven't called him on it, so it is probably legal" as a convincing argument. The pros don't know all the rules, and they don't care to enforce some of the rules that they do know
The man's a damned mind-reader.
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  #25  
Old 01-26-2022, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chevis View Post
but it has those characteristics from the beginning, it's just a different grip.
It's not a different grip.

ORDG-2022:813.01.A Discs used in play must be approved by the PDGA and meet all of the conditions set forth in the PDGA Technical Standards.

TS-2021:I.C.1 approved discs must have a circular, saucer-like configuration...

A disc folded up into a taco, ball, football, etc. no longer is circular or saucer-like.

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  #26  
Old 01-26-2022, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krupicka View Post
It's not a different grip.

ORDG-2022:813.01.A Discs used in play must be approved by the PDGA and meet all of the conditions set forth in the PDGA Technical Standards.

TS-2021:I.C.1 approved discs must have a circular, saucer-like configuration...

A disc folded up into a taco, ball, football, etc. no longer is circular or saucer-like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve West View Post
It is really hard to argue that modifying a disc so it flies like a ball is somehow NOT modifying the disc in a way that alters its original flight characteristics.
I can run with these.
Ball it up, and it's no longer a disc. At which point, you've changed it's flight characteristics (even if only for a throw).

Just because the flight characteristics are restored afterward, doesn't change the fact that you changed them for a throw.

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Last edited by BogeyNoMore; 01-26-2022 at 10:25 PM.
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  #27  
Old 01-27-2022, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BogeyNoMore View Post
Ball it up, and it's no longer a disc.

So, if you wad up a piece of paper then what does it become? Its still a piece of paper its just wadded up.

A disc folded into a ball doesnt magically become a monkey. Its still a disc. Its just a disc folded into a ball.
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  #28  
Old 01-27-2022, 04:08 AM
uncle pennybags uncle pennybags is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krupicka View Post
It's not a different grip.

A disc folded up into a taco, ball, football, etc. no longer is circular or saucer-like.
SO would a disc that has been smashed into a tree as a result of regular play and is now badly taco'ed no longer be leagal? It's no longer circular or saucer like, maybe not to this extreme but still badly deformed. What about a hard rip on a soft disc like this, they tend to get floppy and deform.

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  #29  
Old 01-27-2022, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ray1970 View Post
So, if you wad up a piece of paper then what does it become? Its still a piece of paper its just wadded up.

A disc folded into a ball doesnt magically become a monkey. Its still a disc. Its just a disc folded into a ball.
Disc isn't just the name. It describes the geometry as well.

Ball up a piece of paper, and it's still a piece of paper, but it's no longer a rectangle, with the physical properties it had with that shape. The dimensions are different.

Ball up a "disc," and you can still call it a disc, but it's no longer a (relatively) flat, thin, round object, with the same physical properties it had when it was approved by the PDGA.


The ability to restore that original shape is irrelevant. All that matters is that it wasn't a "disc shape" for that throw. Therefore, you altered it's flight characteristics.

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  #30  
Old 01-27-2022, 07:50 AM
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Until the rule book explicitly prohibits "balling up" a disc, I will reserve the right to do so.
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